Anyway, for what it's worth, I think Coe was a better athlete than Ovett but I loved the latter and couldn't stand the former. Certain races still move me to tears and the WC 1977 is my favourite sporting moment ever.
I know exactly what you are saying. I was always a Coe fan in those days, but I was pretty young and I can be excused now for being partisan then. As I've grown up and seen more and read more about both of them and the era, I can appreciate their contributions and rivalry on a different level. I still believe Coe to be the better athlete, but can often be found on here and other boards singing Ovett's praises too. I think it is pretty lame the way some people hang on to such polarised views that are largely based around a myth or the views of a select few individuals. The idea that Coe was arrogant and Ovett "one of the lads" is ludicrous. How can an onlooker take any pleasure from watching someone who regularly demeaned fellow competitors by waving at them on the crown of the bend!? Great theatre I grant you, and that in itself does not make him a bad person, but it does make those who then criticise Coe for being aloof and driven, somewhat hypocritical.
There is a lot of reverse snobbery involved. Coe was always portrayed as middle class and with a silver spoon in his mouth, but he was the one who went to a secondary modern comprehensive, and it was Ovett who went to the more middle class Grammar school. A female colleague of mine went to the same secondary school as Coe in Sheffield, Tapton, and it was a very ordinary place by all accounts. He was her prefect and she said that the kids would often see him running round the fields at lunch time.
There is a general unwritten rule in England that success shouldn't be worked too hard for. They like people to be successful but look down upon it if the individual has to strive too hard and make sacrifices. Coe has opened himself up for criticism by doing things like working for the Sports Council, submitting research on peds and helping to acquire the Olympics for London. All political roles, and hell I'm no fan of politicians myself, but at least he's gone on to do something and try to make a difference. He hasn't rested on his laurels as an ex athlete or become some kind of celebrity. He's actually working to improve the sport which gave him so much. There were always going to be people who lost out on Olympic tickets, and this would have happened whatever system LOCOG had chosen. So, as head of Locog he was always going to get criticism. So he could have not taken the role, which might have made him more popular, but he was prepared to do the work and put his head above the parapet and have shots made at him.
I think Daley Thompson made a pertinent speech about him a few years ago when he received an award on Sports Personality of the Year. He basically said that Coe's role in not only UK athletics but UK sport in general was underestimated and under appreciated.
With all this in mind, I don't think that what any athlete does after they retire should have much baring on who to vote for in terms of "favourite" athlete. Ovett was a charismatic and rebellious figure, and these are characteristics often associated with popularity. That's fine. What I can't stand is the systematic negative and inaccurate portrayal of one person in order to contrast a more favourable light on someone else.
I was and remain a Coe fan even though I hated him when he broke Juantoreno's 800m WR (which was the first time I'd heard of him.) I was a big fan of El Caballo since 1976 at age 8. Always preferred Coe over Ovett, thought he was the better athlete in my teenage eyes. Never liked Cram much but rated him. Can't wait to see the top 10. I am glad AP never made the WIC team, that gun has totally fuxX0r3d the 60s
bman wrote:Wow. I'm looking at this thing and there are going to be some HUGE names that get left out. And a lot a lot of medium-huge names. I think I know the top 9 for sure. I predict no Brits will be in the top 10. We will see. It depends if people are tilting towards legends of old or current stars.
I don't.
You have to be right. I discounted (on purpose) the person who you are referring to when I made that prediction, but I must have been drunk because no way in hell did he get no votes upon further reflection.
Denty brings up Alberto Juantorrena, I am really surprised that he didn't finish higher. He would have up there if I had submitted a list. A truly unique athlete. I know he is involved administratively now but I don't know anything about that, maybe people held that against him. I would be interested to learn more about what he does now.
bman wrote:Wow. I'm looking at this thing and there are going to be some HUGE names that get left out. And a lot a lot of medium-huge names. I think I know the top 9 for sure. I predict no Brits will be in the top 10. We will see. It depends if people are tilting towards legends of old or current stars.
I don't.
You have to be right. I discounted (on purpose) the person who you are referring to when I made that prediction, but I must have been drunk because no way in hell did he get no votes upon further reflection.
Denty brings up Alberto Juantorrena, I am really surprised that he didn't finish higher. He would have up there if I had submitted a list. A truly unique athlete. I know he is involved administratively now but I don't know anything about that, maybe people held that against him. I would be interested to learn more about what he does now.
He an IAAF council member and was sitting in front of me yesterday
I wonder if, on the average, Coe is more popular than Ovett among American fans and, if so, because the two (and ALL other athletics performers) got much less media exposure on this side of the pond, but Coe's 1979 season, and the Dream Mile in particular, got him the most notice and got it first. For me, that 1979 mile WR was the first one since I closely started following track and field (1976.) I remember going out for a hard ten-miler with my friend right after watching it, we were 17 at the time, and we were marveling at the race and my friend said, "just think....there are probably a few thousand guys all over the country all fired-up and doing exactly what we're doing right now." It was a treat, the year after Rono's brilliant 1978, to have another guy taking down middle distance records seemingly at will.
Paula Radcliffe may be one of my least favorite athletes who has never tested positive for drugs. Holding up the placard, sitting on the curb boo-hooing, ...her hype (she's a scrawnier Princess Diana to the brits )! The great news here for me is that she won't be #1 (still sucks that she made the top-10)
preston wrote:Paula Radcliffe may be one of my least favorite athletes who has never tested positive for drugs. Holding up the placard, sitting on the curb boo-hooing, ...her hype (she's a scrawnier Princess Diana to the brits )! The great news here for me is that she won't be #1 (still sucks that she made the top-10)
if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
72 wrote:if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
Agreed. Preston's comments about Paula Radcliffe would have to be the most poisonous I have read on the TnF forum. Radcliffe wasn't on my list of 20 but like thousands of others I stand in awe of her achievements.
72 wrote:if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
72 wrote:if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
No need to have a vote let's just crown him already
I voted for Paula early teens I think
The woman is amazing, and it is such a shame that she currently defined by the one of the very few bad days she's ever had.
Why shouldn't she cry when she realizes the one thing that she has trained for her whole life has just ended in failure? The fact that she had known for days going into the race that she wasn't in shape because of the adverse reaction to anti inflammatory medication (I think) yet still kept going to 23 miles in the fallen hope that it might some together is testament to her dedication.
There is no one I will be supporting more in the summer and there is no one who is more deserving of a fairytale end to their career
And the fact that she actively supports a clean sport is one of the many commendable things about her
Well said mump boy! I hope she is able to reach something approaching her peak for London. I wish there were a few more elite athlete's making outspoken comments about drug use. The Indoor Worlds were somewhat tarnished for me, with so many medal winners having been previously banned for doping violations. It doesn't send out the right message to those youngsters or the verge of elite status.
72 wrote:if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
No need to have a vote let's just crown him already
I voted for Paula early teens I think
The woman is amazing, and it is such a shame that she currently defined by the one of the very few bad days she's ever had.
Why shouldn't she cry when she realizes the one thing that she has trained for her whole life has just ended in failure? The fact that she had known for days going into the race that she wasn't in shape because of the adverse reaction to anti inflammatory medication (I think) yet still kept going to 23 miles in the fallen hope that it might some together is testament to her dedication.
And despite breaking her leg just a few months before Beijing, Paula still managed to run with the group for the first 30km and stayed in medal contention longer than her great track rivals Adere and Wami who dropped out between 30-35km. Then she comes back and runs one of the fastest-ever 10-miles of all-time in Portsmouth and smokes a decent field in NY.
Winning a medal is going to be very tough but I just have a feeling it might all come together. Yes, I can't quantify this with much conviction but I just think it might.
scratching my head as to why so much hostility towards preston. all he did was spell out why he doesn't like ms. radcliffe (the princess diana reference was probably unnecessary). is she a sacred cow? did she ever present evidence for her public drug accusations or were they based on speculation?
maroon wrote:did she ever present evidence for her public drug accusations or were they based on speculation?
They were based on the fact that Yegorova failed a test for EPO yet was allowed to compete at the WC, so hardly speculation. Couldn't you have looked that up?
72 wrote:if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
I don't think it would be preston.
Moving along....
The "mean girls" are out ... as always, trying to force everyone to agree with them. They are like that Geico commercial with the 3 teenage "mean girls" where the man tries to save money on weight reduction: "Ew, Seriously, that's so gross"
Interesting that each of our "mean girls" have said something completely vile about other athletes or entire nations but we dare not say a word about Paula Radcliffe's off the charts progression (no Ma Junren athlete has ever come close to her Marathon times...) or the fact that she is a raging hypocrite ("all drug cheats should never go to the Olympics, oh, wait a minute, what was that...ok, well, maybe Dwain can go.) but, maybe I'm wrong, it seems she's evolved. It's not like I'm rooting for her to break a leg, I just would rather someone else win the medals - anyone else actually. (I wouldn't bother searching for what these same posters have said about Dwain or Justin)
The Princess Di/Paula thing was only for me to point out that I DON'T GET THE BRITISH OBSESSION with these two. I don't get the screaming, the crying, the hysteria, the interest to be blunt (but then again, I thought the Whitney Houston thing was overblown, too). Maybe you have to be British...or just a "subject" living under the world.
You can cross that one off your list. Michael Jackson fans prove that. Plus, I'm British and I don't get it either. Maybe I'm one of the exceptions, along with all the MJ fans, that prove the rule?
Last edited by Daisy on Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
trevorp -- thanks for the incomplete info. i just looked it up and ms. yegerova's positive test result was reversed prior to ms. radcliffe's public accusation. she appears to have based her accusations on the usual "non-linear improvement" canard.
Yegorova, who had been around for a while, was an 8min 45sec runner for 3,000m who suddenly started producing times in the 8.20s. Athletes who improve a lot can be unfairly suspected of using performance-enhancing drugs, but Yegorova’s progress was so startling that the questions were inevitable.
preston -- i think all the posters you refer to are male, so it really isn't cool to feminize them by calling them "mean girls".
maroon wrote:trevorp -- thanks for the incomplete info. i just looked it up and ms. yegerova's positive test result was reversed prior to ms. radcliffe's public accusation. she appears to have based her accusations on the usual "non-linear improvement" canard.
Yegorova, who had been around for a while, was an 8min 45sec runner for 3,000m who suddenly started producing times in the 8.20s. Athletes who improve a lot can be unfairly suspected of using performance-enhancing drugs, but Yegorova’s progress was so startling that the questions were inevitable.
preston -- i think all the posters you refer to are male, so it really isn't cool to feminize them by calling them "mean girls".
There were 2 different types of EPO tests in 01, one using blood the other using urine. Only 1 had been ratified by the IAAF despite It being the less reliable one (presumably it was the urine test but i can't remember) Both test were ratified by other sports. Yegorova failed the more reliable but unratified test. A few weeks later the test was introduced officially.
I don't know how holding up a sign saying 'EPO cheats out' can be considered controversial. Surely it's a sentiment that all fans should support
As for Preston, after lauding Kenderis and advocating the shooting of Derek Redmond's dad his comments on Paula are both boring and predictable and i'm the 'mean girl' ?!!
72 wrote:if ever anyone starts a competition/forum for the nastiest creep on this board I think Preston would win hands down. Sh*t head would certainly have my vote .
No need to have a vote let's just crown him already
I voted for Paula early teens I think
The woman is amazing, and it is such a shame that she currently defined by the one of the very few bad days she's ever had.
Why shouldn't she cry when she realizes the one thing that she has trained for her whole life has just ended in failure? The fact that she had known for days going into the race that she wasn't in shape because of the adverse reaction to anti inflammatory medication (I think) yet still kept going to 23 miles in the fallen hope that it might some together is testament to her dedication.
There is no one I will be supporting more in the summer and there is no one who is more deserving of a fairytale end to their career
And the fact that she actively supports a clean sport is one of the many commendable things about her
Couldn't have said it better myself. Radcliffe was my No.1 choice for pretty much all the reasons you mention above. Perhaps the most dedicated (sometimes to the extreme) athlete around, but often that has been her undoing and those few times when she pushed things too hard were heart-wrenching. But it's for those reasons that make you want to root for her, in the hope that things will go right. Of course, she has had many a day when things did go to plan - her WRs, her world title, etc. Hopefully she'll have another good day when the Olympics roll around. Someone of her stature deserves to be defined for her achievements and not for her misfortunes. I'm pleased she's made the top 10 in this poll
A few more athletes have been and gone since my last post on this thread. They are...
Virgilijus Alekna As has been the case with many of my other choices, I have tremendous admiration for under-acknowledged athletes who have great longevity and consistency. Alekna is a perfect example. He has finished in the top six at every major championships (WC, OG, EC) since 1996 - an incredible record. Although he's not throwing as far as he once did, he's still going strong at 40 and it would be great to see him win a medal in London this year. I also think that, had he chosen to chase competitions in wind tunnels like Gerd Kanter, he could have broken the world record at his peak. Still, a 73.88m is nothing to be sniffed at.
Wilson Kipketer Probably one of the nicest guys in athletics. I don't think I've ever seen him without a smile on his face. Also such a smooth runner and a joy to watch. I remember watching the Athens Olympic 800m final (on my 20th birthday), actually tugging at my hair, willing Kiketer to win. He didn't, but I was happy enough that he at least got a medal in his last ever championships final.
Maria Mutola Another consistent athlete with great longevity and an incredible record at major champs. It was great watching her at her peak, just waiting for the moment that she'd strike and leave the rest of the field for dead.
I have just two choices left. One of them (my No.3 choice) is no surprise to be in the top 10, but I'm very pleasantly surprised that my other one (my No.5 pick) is also in the top 10 (unless there's been a mis-count !)
mump boy wrote:I don't know how holding up a sign saying 'EPO cheats out' can be considered controversial. Surely it's a sentiment that all fans should support
As for Preston, after lauding Kenderis and advocating the shooting of Derek Redmond's dad his comments on Paula are both boring and predictable and i'm the 'mean girl' ?!!
You're obviously not that familiar with the term mean girls, but the term does fit your m.o. on the boards. It's not just being mean -I know that I can be at times- it's trying to hammer everyone into agreeing with your opinion with snide, arrogant and petulant comments and/or liasing with other posters to do the same. You're not the only one, but it definitely describes you. Also, I don't know how anything that I said about Kenderis makes me mean but you've jumbled so many things that I don't even think you know (and my comments about Paula or Redmonds dad DO NOT raise to the level of "mean girl"; again, I don't think you understand). I don't and will never mind being mean to people who are mean to me, but if i express my feelings about something, then they are just as valid as anyone else's.
But, what makes you and your Paula so wrong about the IAAF's decision is that - it's the IAAF's decision. It's not for athletes to self-judicate! There is a process, a decision was made, and as far as due process is concerned, Radcliffe is NOT the victim, Yegoreva is. The accused MUST have rights, but that's just common law, a superfluous thing. And being british you probably can't see the irony of you railing against it.
Preston, give it up, can't you see that no one agrees with you and that following your string of rather nasty comments in order to make a point in this domain you are going to have to do much better than you are doing here, and you will have to do so from a completely different direction.
Now to ignore you until you have come to your senses and stopped this kind of nonsense which contributes absolutely nothing to this board and detracts from it rather substantially. Why you want to be in that position is beyond me but you seem to do so on multiple occasions.
26mi235 wrote:Preston, give it up, can't you see that no one agrees with you and that following your string of rather nasty comments in order to make a point in this domain you are going to have to do much better than you are doing here, and you will have to do so from a completely different direction.
Now to ignore you until you have come to your senses and stopped this kind of nonsense which contributes absolutely nothing to this board and detracts from it rather substantially. Why you want to be in that position is beyond me but you seem to do so on multiple occasions.
You didn't get the message that I don't care for your moralizing when I ignored your PM "congratulating" me. That said, I don't care what you or the other "groupthinkers" feel. So you give it up. And, while you're at it give up telling everyone else what to do around here you're not a moderator you're a menace.
maroon wrote:scratching my head as to why so much hostility towards preston. all he did was spell out why he doesn't like ms. radcliffe (the princess diana reference was probably unnecessary). is she a sacred cow? did she ever present evidence for her public drug accusations or were they based on speculation?
... because this is a threat about our favouite athletes where we discuss why we like them. I do not like some of the athletes who made the list, and I can list the reasons for my dislike. But I'd rather do that on some other threads, where it would seem more appropriate...
preston wrote:The "mean girls" are out ... as always, trying to force everyone to agree with them. .........Interesting that each of our "mean girls" have said something completely vile about other athletes or entire nations but we dare not say a word about Paula Radcliffe's off the charts progression (no Ma Junren athlete has ever come close to her Marathon times...) .
First, Ma J's girls ran marathons as part of overall training, they posted very good times but it was on the track where Ma's Mean Girlie Machine really chewed up the record books. Just a wee fly in the oinkment of your analogy.
I've read this thread from start to finish and for the life of me I'm not detecting the vile undercurrent which you attribute to certain people you've labelled as girls. Trust me, in another place and time, the girls and meself got into some horrendous flameouts which make anything around here PG13. Of course , we're now fully grown and busted (not for possession), and thoroughly enjoying the benefits of maturity (not that I've addressed them on here anytime lately)..........so, girls, figured out who I am yet, and if so, be sweet.
preston wrote:The "mean girls" are out ... as always, trying to force everyone to agree with them. .........Interesting that each of our "mean girls" have said something completely vile about other athletes or entire nations but we dare not say a word about Paula Radcliffe's off the charts progression (no Ma Junren athlete has ever come close to her Marathon times...) .
First, Ma J's girls ran marathons as part of overall training, they posted very good times but it was on the track where Ma's Mean Girlie Machine really chewed up the record books. Just a wee fly in the oinkment of your analogy.
Not exactly. The argument, by some, is that the Chinese were "out of this world"; however, when we use the IAAF scoring tables...guess who's performance is singing "Rocket Man" right along with the Chinese?
Anyway, I'm ready to move past this "Paula Radcliffe is one of MY least favorite athletes" affair, as long as everyone else is done with talking about it, but if not...we can address it some more.
First, Ma J's girls ran marathons as part of overall training, they posted very good times but it was on the track where Ma's Mean Girlie Machine really chewed up the record books. Just a wee fly in the oinkment of your analogy.
Paula's off the charts progression. ......I don't see it that way at all, - http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html [/quote] Not exactly. The argument, by some, is that the Chinese were "out of this world"; however, when we use the IAAF scoring tables...guess who's performance is singing "Rocket Man" right along with the Chinese?
Very good point which I was mulling about and then got thinking on another tangent. Probably the single most powerful way of juxtaposing the performances. I cannot pull any charts out of my hat or post a link to a site showing male/female (comparative) performance progressions, and I'm not sure I'd be the best bloke to perform analysis on them..........what I'm driving at is a not-so-new argument that as the distance gets longer, the performance gap shrinks between the boys and the girls. Feel free to (accurately ) delve into any studies/other information that may shed light on this. Or, we could also luck out and find 26mi235 knows something about this.
mump boy wrote:I don't know how holding up a sign saying 'EPO cheats out' can be considered controversial. Surely it's a sentiment that all fans should support
As for Preston, after lauding Kenderis and advocating the shooting of Derek Redmond's dad his comments on Paula are both boring and predictable and i'm the 'mean girl' ?!!
You're obviously not that familiar with the term mean girls, but the term does fit your m.o. on the boards. It's not just being mean -I know that I can be at times- it's trying to hammer everyone into agreeing with your opinion with snide, arrogant and petulant comments and/or liasing with other posters to do the same. You're not the only one, but it definitely describes you. Also, I don't know how anything that I said about Kenderis makes me mean but you've jumbled so many things that I don't even think you know (and my comments about Paula or Redmonds dad DO NOT raise to the level of "mean girl"; again, I don't think you understand). I don't and will never mind being mean to people who are mean to me, but if i express my feelings about something, then they are just as valid as anyone else's.
But, what makes you and your Paula so wrong about the IAAF's decision is that - it's the IAAF's decision. It's not for athletes to self-judicate! There is a process, a decision was made, and as far as due process is concerned, Radcliffe is NOT the victim, Yegoreva is. The accused MUST have rights, but that's just common law, a superfluous thing. And being british you probably can't see the irony of you railing against it.
. We will see. It depends if people are tilting towards legends of old or current stars.
.
......I don't see it that way at all, -