Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Madd Marine » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 am

Marlow wrote:Just watched the video. What a great sport Rudisha is!! He posed with the 'boy' after the race, genuinely smiling.


Yes, Rudisha was a good sport about it. He always comes off as a very good natured guy in interviews, the type that you simply can't begrudge success. Several fast races caught up with him, or he just had an off day. For him. Aman is a super talent.

I've never thought Ethiopians look older than other ethnicities "by default". In fact, many of them seem to look younger than they are. We have a sizable Ethiopian population in L.A., and it seems to be the same youthful look for many of them. A guy like Geb seems to be a rarity. But that's subjective, to others it could appear to be the opposite.

It's better to pay attention to how fast some of these guys are instead of paying attention to bogus claims about their ages. It happens here in the US as well. A couple of years ago the Footlocker XC winner was Ethiopian expatriate Solomon Haile who was obviously well over age. I do believe the stories that claim that a lot of these athletes don't know their true birthdate. I also think that officials in Kenya and Ethiopia, even when they do know an athlete's true birthdate, and positively know that the athlete in question is too old for youth and junior competitions, will still cook up bogus birth certificates and get the adults to line up against the kids just to jack up the medal count.

All that said, Aman is definitely a medal threat in London in my book. What that means, I'm not sure, as I felt Centrowitz didn't have a chance to get out of the heats in Daegu and he went out and proved me wrong. Very wrong, lol. In a good way. :D
Madd Marine
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:15 pm

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:25 am

Since this is not qualifying for and running away with Youth or Junior competitions, the focus on age really only relates to how they will be when they mature.

Thus, the question is whether is maturing very early and does not have as much upside as several more years of quick ascent from 17 to 19 (which is typical) with several more years thereafter of slow improvement. This, of course, would get him into 1:40 territory. So, is he going to be the 800m version of Bolt or similar to a number of others that became top-level runners but not outliers.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby gh » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:59 am

I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Aman's agent thinks he's probably 25.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby kuha » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:02 am

Sounds about right.

For the millionth time, none of us should get excited about these so-called "17-yr old" athletes on the basis of reputed age. The only thing that matters is their actual performances, which are impressive enough for any 25 yr. old.
kuha
 
Posts: 9034
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Marlow » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:42 am

gh wrote:I've heard from a pretty reliable source that Aman's agent thinks he's probably 25.

Even factoring in the lack of record-keeping in some parts of rural Africa, certainly his parents and village know how old he is. How do athletes continue to 'get away' with this stuff (a lot like the Chinese gymnasts who were actually younger (i.e., ineligible) than they were alleged to be). It just doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to disprove the age claims. Are there no enterprising journalists who would like to blow the cover off this story?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21126
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby DoubleRBar » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:52 am

A lot of people think I'm 39.
DoubleRBar
 
Posts: 1114
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:21 am
Location: Mineral City

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby lonewolf » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:15 am

Not to be too smug about it but, at age 80, I still get carded at the grocery store for Tuesday's Senior Discount for age 60... I have not dismissed the possiblilty that the twenty something checkout girl may just be flattering me.. :)
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8816
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Half Miler » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:07 pm

kuha wrote:For the millionth time, none of us should get excited about these so-called "17-yr old" athletes on the basis of reputed age. The only thing that matters is their actual performances, which are impressive enough for any 25 yr. old.


I disagree.

Aman has forever altered the all-time WY and WJ lists and record entries, which simply isn't fair if he's actually 25 (or whatever his actual age may be).

That's like saying, "so what if athlete X was on PEDs, the only thing that matters is how fast he ran."
Half Miler
 
Posts: 2792
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: infinite loupe

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby kuha » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:01 pm

And you are free to be skeptical, which I encourage. Just because something is "official" doesn't mean that it deserves our acceptance or respect. Take the women's list of WRs for example...
kuha
 
Posts: 9034
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby IanS_Liv » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:39 pm

Aman's career progression according to the IAAF:

2008 (14yo) 1:50.29.
2009 (15yo) 1:46.34
2010 (16yo) 1:48.50
2011 (17yo) 1:43.37

I don't buy it. Sorry.
IanS_Liv
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby gibson » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:36 am

the guy looks 21 plus. and probably is.
africans ages are mostly bullshit going way back anyway.
you should forget age and just judge them by what they can do.
gibson
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:57 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Letlôtse » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:46 am

gibson wrote:africans ages are mostly bullshit going way back anyway.


Oh Lord, please tell me you did not just write that.

What a generalised and ignorant thing to write.
Letlôtse
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:38 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby 72 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:00 am

Who cares if he is 17,18,19 or older. he is a great talent for the future, probably. Nobody on this self regarding Forum knows and can prove whether he is, or his not, 17 years old, remarkable though that may be.

Good job another American decathlete of 17and 21 years of age like Bob Mathias does not just turn up or we will have age disbelief and suggestions of drugs as well. :( :(
72
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:12 am

Think about it this way. In a number of cases, age is only known approximately. You have an age-limited competition in a sport where people get better with age. Now, are you more likely to get those whose age is 'guessed' on the high side or the low side in these age-limited events. It does not take any cheating, just errors in knowing the age.

On top of this, you may also get some deliberate age cheating because it is very difficult to get noticed in Kenya and Ethiopia if you are only 'really good' as a senior (or older junior) and thus you get a bit of an advantage by pulling in age-competition awards.

However it is part one that seems to escape people's attention at times.

My summary: Athletes from countries with unknown ages will tend to have entrants a bit older than they are listed, although not usually by a whole lot, because small errors in age should be more common than large errors.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Sasuke » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:52 am

Half Miler wrote:
kuha wrote:For the millionth time, none of us should get excited about these so-called "17-yr old" athletes on the basis of reputed age. The only thing that matters is their actual performances, which are impressive enough for any 25 yr. old.


Aman has forever altered the all-time WY and WJ lists and record entries, which simply isn't fair if he's actually 25 (or whatever his actual age may be).


Do you really think Leonard Kirwa Kosenka would be more fair as world best holder?
Sasuke
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:32 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Half Miler » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:16 am

Sasuke wrote:Do you really think Leonard Kirwa Kosenka would be more fair as world best holder?


Have you read my posts? I'm skeptical, just like you.
Half Miler
 
Posts: 2792
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: infinite loupe

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby mal » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:58 am

IanS_Liv wrote:Aman's career progression according to the IAAF:

2008 (14yo) 1:50.29.
2009 (15yo) 1:46.34
2010 (16yo) 1:48.50
2011 (17yo) 1:43.37

I don't buy it. Sorry.



He was born in the season of the heavy rains on the Serengeti. Don't you remember?

I think it was somewhere between 1983 and 1993.

Pick a date. :mrgreen:
mal
 
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Half Miler » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:15 am

Ethiopia is a bit north of the Serengeti.
Half Miler
 
Posts: 2792
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: infinite loupe

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby cornstarchwilson » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:34 pm

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/0 ... rom-china/

President Obama has a birth certificate and notice printed in the newspapers and still many believe he was born in Kenya.

Was Bernard Legat better than Galen Rupp in the WC 5k because he's in his 30s and Rupp is is in his 20s?

Can a 11 year old boy who is 4' 11'' and 110lbs successfully compete against another 11 year old boy who is 5' 8'' and 150lbs?
cornstarchwilson
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby nztrackfan » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:08 pm

Alan Webb looked about 25 in High School. Now 10 years on maybe because the fact that he is actually now 35 is part of the reason that he can't get back to his best.
nztrackfan
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby pakillo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:50 am

This has probably been discussed but remember Belal Mansour Ali? He was officially something like 16 in Helsinki 2005 and this year at Asian Champs he was 29 8-)

I'm pretty sure that's the same person running for Bahrain http://www.gulf-times.com/sport/192/det ... dals-tally
pakillo
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:05 pm

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby jlt » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:55 am

pakillo wrote:This has probably been discussed but remember Belal Mansour Ali? He was officially something like 16 in Helsinki 2005 and this year at Asian Champs he was 29 8-)

I'm pretty sure that's the same person running for Bahrain http://www.gulf-times.com/sport/192/det ... dals-tally

And that's the same person that finished I think 5th (under former name John Yego) at the Kenya Olympic Trials in 2000. Let's assume (at best) he was 20 then......

The thing I like about this story is there was "a serious investigation" after WY and they found no proof that he was over age.......mind you they didn't ask his former manager Gianni de Madonna who had a copy of his former passport in his filing cabinet. As a colleague said later "that's a hell of an investigation"....
jlt
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Master Po » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:58 am

pakillo wrote:This has probably been discussed but remember Belal Mansour Ali? He was officially something like 16 in Helsinki 2005 and this year at Asian Champs he was 29 8-)

I'm pretty sure that's the same person running for Bahrain http://www.gulf-times.com/sport/192/det ... dals-tally


His dob is listed on IAAF & www.all-athletics.com sites as 17 October 1988, and present-day references to him that I have seen use this date, and refer to him as 24 yo. Since we're mentioning other things about this guy, I thought that should at least be mentioned, too. Like others, I also have no idea how old he is.
Master Po
 
Posts: 2641
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: north coast USA

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby pakillo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:06 am

Master Po wrote:
pakillo wrote:This has probably been discussed but remember Belal Mansour Ali? He was officially something like 16 in Helsinki 2005 and this year at Asian Champs he was 29 8-)

I'm pretty sure that's the same person running for Bahrain http://www.gulf-times.com/sport/192/det ... dals-tally


His dob is listed on IAAF & http://www.all-athletics.com sites as 17 October 1988, and present-day references to him that I have seen use this date, and refer to him as 24 yo. Since we're mentioning other things about this guy, I thought that should at least be mentioned, too. Like others, I also have no idea how old he is.
Meeting's websites I have seen in recent years and Asian Champs website listed his year of birth as 1983 (which is probably more truth).

I am skeptical about Aman's age but since he is a factor in senior global stage it's not that I care that much.The only thing that bothers me is the usual emphasis on his age (oh look at him, what a power and he's still a junior :roll: )
pakillo
 
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:05 pm

Re: Mohammed Aman: 1:43.37 at age 17

Postby Alan Shank » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:21 pm

26mi235 wrote:On top of this, you may also get some deliberate age cheating because it is very difficult to get noticed in Kenya and Ethiopia if you are only 'really good' as a senior (or older junior) and thus you get a bit of an advantage by pulling in age-competition awards.


We see this in major-league baseball, too, because a certain batting or pitching record is much more impressive by an 18-year-old than a 20-year-old. Oakland's Miguel Tejada turned out to be a couple of years older than the A's management thought he was, and there have been other cases, plus probably many more not discovered.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA
Alan Shank
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: N38 40, W 121 52

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gktrack, Per Andersen and 4 guests