t_monk wrote:The 4x100 at this meet was interesting... I wish I saw the meet results for this... Felix beat Jeter to the line in the 4x100. Looking at the names in the 4x100 you would also think that Jeter's team on paper does look better....
Event 21 Women 4x100 Meter Relay ======================================================================== School Seed Finals ======================================================================== Finals 1 Bobby Kersee All-Stars 'A' 42.99 42.65 1) Powell, Jenny 2) Turnbull, Jennba 3) Harper, Dawn 4) Felix, Allyson ....
notorious wrote:When Jeter can break 22 seconds, you can give me a call
So is VCB in 21.x shape; how many times has she run 21 since 2008? I VCB is supposed to be the best of all time and Jeter just put in an April race that was the equal of VCB's 2011 Gold medal year, then you cannot be hiding behind such a ridiculous statement. If VCB has run that time you would have it in large, bold letters...
ATK wrote:Looks like Felix also ran the 3rd leg of the 4x400.
Actually, Felix and Jeter both anchored.
But Felix had at least a 10m lead on Jeter when she got the stick; just too much for Jeter to seriously think about challenging (especially in her first competition).
The gap may have closed a little bit, but not by much as Felix brought her team home in a world-leading time.
ATK wrote:Looks like Felix also ran the 3rd leg of the 4x400.
Actually, Felix and Jeter both anchored.
But Felix had at least a 10m lead on Jeter when she got the stick; just too much for Jeter to seriously think about challenging (especially in her first competition).
The gap may have closed a little bit, but not by much as Felix brought her team home in a world-leading time.
notorious wrote:When Jeter can break 22 seconds, you can give me a call
So is VCB in 21.x shape; how many times has she run 21 since 2008? I VCB is supposed to be the best of all time and Jeter just put in an April race that was the equal of VCB's 2011 Gold medal year, then you cannot be hiding behind such a ridiculous statement. If VCB has run that time you would have it in large, bold letters...
So now your saying that Jeter is a better 200 runner than VCB? I am sure VCB will be back in 2010 shape pretty soon, she is now training and will be focusing more on the 200 this year because she wants to make history.So VCB will be running some great times this year in the 200. When Jeter does break 22 then VCB should be worried.Until then VCB is still the queen B of the 200.
notorious wrote:When Jeter can break 22 seconds, you can give me a call
So is VCB in 21.x shape; how many times has she run 21 since 2008? I VCB is supposed to be the best of all time and Jeter just put in an April race that was the equal of VCB's 2011 Gold medal year, then you cannot be hiding behind such a ridiculous statement. If VCB has run that time you would have it in large, bold letters...
No way in hell will Jeter beat Veronica over 200m in London even though you wish that would happen.
Veronica is a superior 200m runner and her Olympic medals over the years has proven that.
notorious wrote:When Jeter can break 22 seconds, you can give me a call
So is VCB in 21.x shape; how many times has she run 21 since 2008? I VCB is supposed to be the best of all time and Jeter just put in an April race that was the equal of VCB's 2011 Gold medal year, then you cannot be hiding behind such a ridiculous statement. If VCB has run that time you would have it in large, bold letters...
No way in hell will Jeter beat Veronica over 200m in London even though you wish that would happen.
Veronica is a superior 200m runner and her Olympic medals over the years has proven that.
notorious wrote:No way in hell will Jeter beat Veronica over 200m in London even though you wish that would happen.
Veronica is a superior 200m runner and her Olympic medals over the years has proven that.
Yes, well Jeter has only been running the 200 seriously since last year, and her 100 speed will make her increasingly dangerous in the longer sprint as her experience and endurance catch up.
I wouldnt bet my house that Jeter will beat VCB in the 200 in London, but only a fool would dismiss her out of hand, for the reasons I stated.
notorious wrote:When Jeter can break 22 seconds, you can give me a call
So is VCB in 21.x shape; how many times has she run 21 since 2008? I VCB is supposed to be the best of all time and Jeter just put in an April race that was the equal of VCB's 2011 Gold medal year, then you cannot be hiding behind such a ridiculous statement. If VCB has run that time you would have it in large, bold letters...
So now your saying that Jeter is a better 200 runner than VCB? I am sure VCB will be back in 2010 shape pretty soon, she is now training and will be focusing more on the 200 this year because she wants to make history.So VCB will be running some great times this year in the 200. When Jeter does break 22 then VCB should be worried.Until then VCB is still the queen B of the 200.
It really is not that tough.
notorious: When Jeter can break 22 give me a call -- interpretation, this time is a yawner.
me: I asked how many times VCB has been in that sub-22 shape recently (no response to that one). Then mentioned that this apparent yawner was the equal of VCB's Gold-winning mark and anything else she did in 2011. Are either of those things at all inaccurate? If not, then Jeter's time is far from being a yawner.
Now, where did I say that she was better than VCB? I do not see that statement being made and I do not see a statement that implies that. But, to say that this is a yawner is the height of notorious' 'fanboi' blinders.
By the way, I also am of the opinion that the 100s run by the Jamaicans are far from mail-in-yawners. Both Blake's 9.90/1.6 and the relay leg by Bolt are very impressive. If I have to bet on the Silver medalist this year, Blake gets my early vote (based mainly off who he was beating and how in both the 100 and 200 and that given his age (and the injury pause that makes his age even more of a factor) he has more room for growth than any of the other contenders. Given that he won the WC Gold and then ran 19.26, upside means big things (can he overtake his training mate in another 24 months?).
VCB and Felix have nearly half a second buffer on PBs between themselves and Jeter, and as Jeter is the oldest you'd think that, if all in top form, Jeter would be fighting for bronze at best.
However, it's never that simple. Felix is messing about with which event she should be focussing on and thus her form over 200m has dropped. VCB still wants that 100m title and herself has to prioritize her focus. Jeter has no Olympic medal whatsoever and will put herself under tremendous pressure to make the team and then win.
Felix is 26 while VCB will be 30 next month. This should be the perfect opportunity for Felix to win Olympic gold as she should be at her peak now, whereas VCB in theory shouldnt. But Felix hasn't shown her best 200m form for a while and as notorious and others have said, if she really does want that 200m title more than anything she needs to work on her 100m speed and being able to sustain that speed for as long as possible. Something Kersee knows how to coach ...see Flo Jo.
The Daegu 200m was exciting because before the gun we really didnt know who was going to win. London could be that again, but hopefully much faster. Come Rio and we wont be seeing Jeter and VCB fighting for gold.
Let's not forget the other threats though. Kerron Stewart has a lot of potential in this event, if she chooses to put the work in. Fraser-Pryce also has tremendous potential here and has hinted she wants to go for the double. I'm waiting for another American to step it up too.
For me, Jeter's early 200m has a positive impact on her 100m chances as well. She's been known for her midrace and second half, but it could always be stronger and this time shows good endurance.
Without seeing the race, but looking at the times, she might have run the home straight alone (22.81 in second), and she could have run quicker with some competition - would be good to hear from anyone who was there.
I read in one of the threads that it was likely that VCB and Jeter were to race each other over the 200m in the next few weeks??? Am I dreaming?
Gabriella brings up an excellent point. Before 2008 I don't think any of us thought that SAFP would be the Olympic Gold medalist in the 100 and I doubt most of us saw a sub-22 coming from Kerron Stewart for bronze in the 200m either.
As much as I must confess that based off of last season the top 3 are VCB, Jeter and AF in that order (depending on whether AF doubles), the winning time at the WC last year was (at best) underwhelming to give a lot of other athletes a chance. The top 3 at the Olympics last year all ran 22.00 or faster for a medal... VCB 22.74, AF 22.93 and KS 22.00.
If we see a spike in performances this season, as I expect there probably will be some of those 'minor players' should be raising their game. Incidentally KS, SS, Lee and SAFP all have better PB's than Jeter and all could have upset even VCB for gold last year were they fit and ready. SS looks ominous already it seems with her 51.42 in the 400, KS opened with an 11.18, SAFP is a known entity and can spring a surprise and Lee, despite us not seeing much her, most didn't see much from her at the start of 2008 when she ended the season with a 22.01 PB.
The race only seriously gets out of the realm of the 'supporting cast' when athletes start dropping 21.8's and 21.7's. If ever the winning time is anywhere between 22.3 - 21.9... I think anyone between VCB, CJ, AF, SAFP, SS, KS, Lee, Solomon, Duncan, Tarmoh and Knight can EASILY challenge for a medal or damn well win the entire thing. Drop the winning time 21.7x... Well then there is when things truly get interesting and not that the others I mentioned can't get to 21.7x but so far the honor goes to only 2 athletes now in my assertion of actual ability.... Felix and VCB (I'm sorry but as great as Jeter is... and as much as she has the ability... she has yet to go 21.8... not even 21.0... so I am going to hold out on that verdict).
Rio is a long way away and LSU's speedster already has hit a time that makes her a threat if she can repeat in that range when needed. It is not impossible for her to drop another half-second, in which case some of these ladies might soon be running for silver even if they beat the current competition. Gardner as well showed better 200 form than last year and she is only a sophomore so she and Duncan may push each other at NCAAs this year.
Duncan will run her first outdoor 200 this Saturday. Hopefully, the weather will cooperate with her so that we can all get a good look at where she fits into this picture. I can also tell you that Lee is fit and ready to make a run at her third Olympic team. One thing that's certain is that some really good 200 runners will be left off the team this year.
t_monk wrote:If ever the winning time is anywhere between 22.3 - 21.9... I think anyone between VCB, CJ, AF, SAFP, SS, KS, Lee, Solomon, Duncan, Tarmoh and Knight can EASILY challenge for a medal or damn well win the entire thing.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but It seems like your looking at it from a numbers standpoint,That since all these ladies have run in this time range, then if the time is around there anyone can win. But one it gets into the range that only AF and VCB have run then its all them. If the winning time is in the 22.3-21.9 range, then your talking about the peak range for all of these ladies, except VCB and AF. I don't see how it makes sense for everyone to be at their best while those ladies are dropping back to average in the same race under the same conditions. I think VCB and AF have an advantage and any time, simply from a competitive standpoint. Only twice have these ladies gone under 22 in every final since 2004, yet they have both still been the dominant top 2.
I do agree with you on everything else you stated though.
All this is what makes the 200m in London a better race than the 100m, big call I know, but looking at all the players, the threepeat, Felix without an individual Olympic Gold, Jeter new to the event, the usual Olympic unknown, people having an off year in 2011, the Daegu final being poor in terms of times - its going to be epic.
Unless injury becomes a factor, everyone should be raising their game this year, there's no second chances. VCB and AF should be the main challengers, but in 2008, i would have said the same of VCB in the Beijing 100m and look where we ended up.
At the start of 2008, who'd have thought Kerron Stewart would medal in the 200 in Beijing? At the start of 2004, who'd have thought VCB and Felix would go 1-2 in the 200m in Athens (and all of the 2003 medalists would miss out)? At the start of 2000, who'd have thought Pauline Davis and Jayasinghe would go 1-2 in the 200m in Sydney (and Jones would lose her medal)? At the start of 1996, who'd have thought Perec would be Olympic champion in Atlanta and Torrance and Privalova wouldn't factor at all? At the start of 1992, who'd have thought Juliet Cuthbert would be silver medalist in the 200m in Barcelona? At the start of 1988, who'd have thought Grace Jackson would be running 21.72 for silver in Seoul?
You get me?
2008 was probably the most predictable of all recent Olympic 200m finals, but we still had a surprise with Stewart winning bronze in her first senior champs 200m and improving to 21.99 from her 22.41 in 2007.
There's every reason to believe that in 2012 something similar will happen and it will not be VCB-Felix-Jeter as everyone expects.
yeah, there are full of changeable factors,young talent will become stronger and stronger,old generation like stewart,simpson and so on still active in world stage.
That would be her fastest season opener event, she ran 22.32 in 2010. I don't think she needs to be that fast at this stage, if she gets a 1.5w like Jeter, I would be happy with 22.50.
The wind in the 200 is not like the wind in the 100; in fact you can start into the wind that is later helpful, especially if the wind is coming from the right side of the straight (although you do get a little the longer section on the end-of-curve/straight).
It's underestimated how tough and durable you have to be to compete successfully at this level for any length of time. I was reading were Hooker (before announcing her pregnancy) was anticipating the pain her body would have to endure in preparation for this season.
You she mentioned going through things like butt lock to get there.
I see Allyson is taking my advice and working on her speed this season. In addition to running on the 4 x 100m last weekend at Penn Relays, she ran a 100m in Japan yesterday. She ran a creditable 11.20.
I read somewhere she is also running the 100m in Doha next week against VC , Fraser and Stewart. I can't see her finishing higher than 4th however.
to get there.