¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!


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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby Vielleicht » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:45 am

Fuck it, this is such a great shame.

But Liu Xiang is indeed a classy guy, he just told the Chinese reporter that he doesn't blame it on Robles. Ah! It's always sad to see a good guy lose to misfortune. :|
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby gibson » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:01 am

This championship is not useful in determining who is best at what thus far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_sQF45iHSg

My freeze frame gives Liu the probable win, just in front and accelerating faster than Robles.

Liu is back.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby gh » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:13 am

rumors buzzing that it's indeed a DQ.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby tm71 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:18 am

doubt they will dq him, it did not seem blatant. liu is definitely classy, imagine if this had happened in the men's 100 or in a few other team sports...

just saw it too that robles got dqed, and the commentators just mentioned it as they went off the air ! i hate for any event not to be decided on the track or field. i can hear and read the ramblings on this one !!!
Last edited by tm71 on Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby gm » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:21 am

Yikes! The results now showing a Robles DQ!

Richardson with the gold. Brilliant run, JaiRich.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby croflash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:22 am

:?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby gh » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:22 am

appeal is filed, of course
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Top_end_speed » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:22 am

Robes has been DQ.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby guru » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:23 am

tm71 wrote:doubt they will dq him, it did not seem blatant.



If Robles made contact in Liu's lane his intent won't matter. There's no doubting it upset Liu's momentum and form coming off 10.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Letlôtse » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:24 am

gm wrote:Yikes! The results now showing a Robles DQ!

Richardson with the gold. Brilliant run, JaiRich.

Oh that is the height of bull****. That just tops it off.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby guru » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:24 am

Richardson gold. wow...
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby The Norwegian » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:26 am

Liu's as much to blame for the contact
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby PCSExponent » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:32 am

guru wrote:If Robles made contact in Liu's lane his intent won't matter. There's no doubting it upset Liu's momentum and form coming off 10.


I haven't seen the head-shot well enough, but it's obvious each athlete was in his own lane. I think the hand-rubbing was somewhere over the line.... How is Robles to blame more than Liu????? :?
I will say this- if Robles is DQed for this while Perry was not DQed in 2007...... The universe is just more fucked up than any one has ever been able to articulate in writing :|
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby 72 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:34 am

if Richardson gets the gold makes a bit of nonsense of the principle that the best man wins the Gold, sadly. Richardson certauinly saved his very best for the semi.

In the future many will say the lucky guy won, not the fastest, assuming the Jury of Appeal dqs Robles.
These Champs certainly got their share of drama and probably more to come.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby AS » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:36 am

gh, can you explain the DQ process? Did this require a Chinese protest, or can the officials DQ independently? And, given Richardson/USA benefits, can US officials file protest?

Tough call to give Richardson the win, when it was Liu who was impeded... I'd vote for a re-match... as would everyone else I'm sure :)
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:41 am

I have seen far more contact in other races. That is the nature of hurdles-nothing blatant or intentional. I hope and imagine the Cubans are appealing?

And I was cheering for Liu-after all he has been through a win would have been incredible.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Vielleicht » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:48 am

mojo wrote:I have seen far more contact in other races. That is the nature of hurdles-nothing blatant or intentional. I hope and imagine the Cubans are appealing?

And I was cheering for Liu-after all he has been through a win would have been incredible.

I think only Robles could say for certain whether it was intentional or not; all others can only speculate.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby nevetsllim » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:51 am

mojo wrote:I have seen far more contact in other races. That is the nature of hurdles-nothing blatant or intentional. I hope and imagine the Cubans are appealing?

And I was cheering for Liu-after all he has been through a win would have been incredible.


I remember Colin Jackson ran in Zurich a few years ago and he was getting whacked by the guy on his outside over every hurdle! Flailing arms/hands are just one of the occupational hazards of hurdling and Robles looked to be slightly affected by the first clash. Liu Xiang's such a class act though and he didn't blame Robles in the post-race interviews. Jason Richardson also described the victory as bittersweet too.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby guru » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:54 am

Will we see a rerun?

IAAF 163.2

Obstruction

2. Any competing athlete who jostles or obstructs another athlete, so as
to impede his progress, shall be liable to disqualification from that
event. The Referee shall have the authority to order the race to be reheld excluding any disqualified athlete or, in the case of a preliminary
round, to permit any athlete(s) seriously affected by jostling or
obstruction (other than any disqualified athlete), to compete in a
subsequent round of the event. Normally, such an athlete should have
completed the event with bona fide effort.

Regardless of whether there has been a disqualification, the Referee,
in exceptional circumstances, shall also have the authority to order the
race to be re-held if he considers it just and reasonable to do so.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Letlôtse » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:00 am

To be completely wiped out from a race because of an unintentioned action is unjust.

It all just doesn't make sense.

What if Liu surged through to gold despite the contact ? Still a disqualification for Robles ?

What if Liu managed to surge past Robles right at the line to silver after being knocked back a little at the instant of the contact ? Would Robles still be disqualified although Liu managed to recover from the set back ?

What if it was Liu's arm that was on top of Robles' on contact making it seems that it is Liu's arm that is pushing Robles' back and therefore making Robles the one that is being impeded. However, for whatever reason (position of the body at that instant, balance, centre of gravity, bad last hurdle, etc), Liu comes off worse from the contact being knocked back a little.

There are other ways of thinking about it.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:02 am

nevetsllim wrote:
mojo wrote:I have seen far more contact in other races. That is the nature of hurdles-nothing blatant or intentional. I hope and imagine the Cubans are appealing?

And I was cheering for Liu-after all he has been through a win would have been incredible.


I remember Colin Jackson ran in Zurich a few years ago and he was getting whacked by the guy on his outside over every hurdle! Flailing arms/hands are just one of the occupational hazards of hurdling and Robles looked to be slightly affected by the first clash. Liu Xiang's such a class act though and he didn't blame Robles in the post-race interviews. Jason Richardson also described the victory as bittersweet too.



Completely agree. Blanking on the name tof the female US hurdler no one wanted inthe lane next to them....? (middle age syndrome!) :oops:

I have seen far worse clashes than this one with no DQs.
Last edited by mojo on Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby uakari » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:05 am

the aforementioned perry.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:09 am

uakari wrote:the aforementioned perry.



Thanks. Part of being middle aged is also not reading everything. :oops:

I am so pissed off and disappointed by this- Letlotse's scenarios were equally possible.

After such a great night of comp this leaves a very bitter taste.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Novianv2 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:12 am

What a great race! Totally what I was hoping for – 3 dudes running hurdle for hurdle waiting to see who would blink first. Too bad about the DQ – why can't countries just let this stuff get settled on the track? Can't believe Oliver didn't show-up. This all bodes well for us hurdle fans going into an Olympic year. Xiang and Robles are still on top of their games. Oliver will be back and even more determined. And this young Jason Richardson kid...look out! :D
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:19 am

Letlôtse wrote:To be completely wiped out from a race because of an unintentioned action is unjust.

It all just doesn't make sense.

What if Liu surged through to gold despite the contact ? Still a disqualification for Robles ?

What if Liu managed to surge past Robles right at the line to silver after being knocked back a little at the instant of the contact ? Would Robles still be disqualified although Liu managed to recover from the set back ?

What if it was Liu's arm that was on top of Robles' on contact making it seems that it is Liu's arm that is pushing Robles' back and therefore making Robles the one that is being impeded. However, for whatever reason (position of the body at that instant, balance, centre of gravity, bad last hurdle, etc), Liu comes off worse from the contact being knocked back a little.

There are other ways of thinking about it.

Well, it looks like you have all of the wrong ways to think about it covered. The only thing that matters is what happened: Liu was impeded by Robles, Robles should be DQ'd. Beyond that, it is obvious that this was intentional. Robles reaches forward 2m before the hurdle when the vast majority of in-race contact happens in-air or immediately after.

Novianv2 wrote: ...Too bad about the DQ – why can't countries just let this stuff get settled on the track? Can't believe Oliver didn't show-up. This all bodes well for us hurdle fans going into an Olympic year.

Settle it on the track? This isn't hockey! You don't get to grab people because they're ahead of you. :roll:

One more thing: do we really have fans here saying that because Perry got away with an obvious wrong a few years back that no one should advance their thinking on fairness in perpetuity? :roll:
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles wins big showdown

Postby lilwayne1814 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:21 am

[quote="gibson"]This championship is not useful in determining who is best at what thus far.

Why? Because the faves are going down? hahahahahaha...The meet is great. One shouldn't FS and people will be DQ'd...It happens in all sports. get over it. Congrats JR...
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby roixordo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:23 am

nevetsllim wrote:
mojo wrote:I have seen far more contact in other races. That is the nature of hurdles-nothing blatant or intentional. I hope and imagine the Cubans are appealing?

And I was cheering for Liu-after all he has been through a win would have been incredible.


I remember Colin Jackson ran in Zurich a few years ago and he was getting whacked by the guy on his outside over every hurdle! Flailing arms/hands are just one of the occupational hazards of hurdling and Robles looked to be slightly affected by the first clash. Liu Xiang's such a class act though and he didn't blame Robles in the post-race interviews. Jason Richardson also described the victory as bittersweet too.

Last semi-final in European Champs.

Quiñónez vs. Doucouré .The frechman wasn´t DQed.
video
http://www.rtve.es/deportes/20100730/qu ... 2949.shtml
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby croflash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:24 am

I still haven't seen a conclusive angle. Clearly, Robles caught Liu's left wrist with his right hand, but where did the contact actually happen? I'm not sure Liu did not impede Robles' lane for a split second there, it happens all the time in hurdles.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby MDelano » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:26 am

Whatever happened to Oliver these last weeks? His starts in particular have been atrocious.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby guru » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:28 am

Cuban protest denied
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Novianv2 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:28 am

Ok, I don't want to get into a war of words but 7-sided, have your ever hurdled? I ask this b/c if you have, you'd have to ask yourself if grabbing another hurdler mid-race during a WC final while you are running essentially 13 flat is actually on the top of your mind. Note the word "intentionally".

Anyway, I agree with most here – a great race and I can't wait to see them do it again next year! :D
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:33 am

That Liu was impeded is unassailable. The rest is the proper assessment in terms of the rules and their application. It did not seem that the contact had any adverse effect on Robles

Any competing athlete who jostles or obstructs another athlete, so as
to impede his progress, shall be liable to disqualification from that
event.
No 'deliberate' in this clause.

As for the best athlete winning, if you false start are you the best athlete? If you impeded someone does it have to be deliberate and how do you tell deliberate and does it matter if it is careless (which seems that it might be in this case).
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Quotes on/by Liu

Postby 3 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:46 am

Post-race quotes on/by Liu:

Liu: When I approached the ninth hurdle, Robles pulled me. It made me slow down

Liu: I lost my balance when I came to the 10th hurdle because of the bump. If not for the incident, I would been the gold medalist.

Liu: Robles hit me twice, at the ninth hurdle he pulled at me but I'm sure it wasn't intentional.

Allen Johnson: That's hurdling, it happens all the time, it just so happens that this time it happened to the two fastest hurdlers ever at the world championship

Close-ups of the entanglement:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00t ... 6/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aw ... L/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gl ... 4/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fQ ... 4/610x.jpg
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Re: 2011 WC: m110H—

Postby bruce3404 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:48 am

croflash wrote:Robles cements his place in history :D


Yeah, as a colossal ass with that pre-race posturing. After seeing that, I was hoping he'd FS.
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Re: Quotes on/by Liu

Postby croflash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:55 am

3 wrote:Post-race quotes on/by Liu:

Liu: When I approached the ninth hurdle, Robles pulled me. It made me slow down

Liu: I lost my balance when I came to the 10th hurdle because of the bump. If not for the incident, I would been the gold medalist.

Liu: Robles hit me twice, at the ninth hurdle he pulled at me but I'm sure it wasn't intentional.

Allen Johnson: That's hurdling, it happens all the time, it just so happens that this time it happened to the two fastest hurdlers ever at the world championship

Close-ups of the entanglement:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00t ... 6/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aw ... L/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gl ... 4/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fQ ... 4/610x.jpg


Well, that second picture is pretty conclusive, really unfortunate for everyone. As a fan of Robles, unfortunately I have to admit that you can make the case he deserved to be disqualified even though there have been worse indicents in hurdling before. Just sucks because Liu still doesn't win the race, Richardson is forced into gold when he wouldn't have finished higher than third if not for the contact and Robles either would have won or finished second.

Just a terrible finish to the third day.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:58 am

GIven the pictures (two posts above) Liu was not over to the edge of his lane and Robles was enough that his foot is over Liu's hurdle. It might be that arms go around in the hurdles, but you have to still be responsible for what you do or the choices get worse.

I think that the pictures show that Liu would likely have won the race (he was also making up ground at the time, in addition to being slightly ahead at this juncture).

Question: in the fourth picture, Liu's lead foot is further down but his trail leg has his foot further back than Robles, whose knee is also much higher than Liu's. Does this demonstrate Liu's superior hurdling technique?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:07 am

Very wrong decision. And like I said I very much wanted Liu to win.

DH is 6"5 and used to weight 200 pounds (yes he is lighter now). Never ran a hurdle race where there was not contact with someone- you fight through it. Yes Robles did affect Liu but not intentionally or blatantly.

People making these decisons (and I have a feeling a friend of ours was in on this as she is there as a track referee) have not hurdled.


Such a great race ruined. :( :(
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:11 am

Novianv2 wrote:Ok, I don't want to get into a war of words but 7-sided, have your ever hurdled? I ask this b/c if you have, you'd have to ask yourself if grabbing another hurdler mid-race during a WC final while you are running essentially 13 flat is actually on the top of your mind. Note the word "intentionally".

Anyway, I agree with most here – a great race and I can't wait to see them do it again next year! :D

Certainly, you're not implying that I would have had to have once run hurdles to see that Robles obviously impeded Liu? He grabbed him, it was intentional and whether he was running 13 seconds or 14 seconds he knew what he was doing...slowing Liu.

mojo wrote:Very wrong decision. And like I said I very much wanted Liu to win.

DH is 6"5 and used to weight 200 pounds (yes he is lighter now). Never ran a hurdle race where there was not contact with someone- you fight through it. Yes Robles did affect Liu but not intentionally or blatantly.

People making these decisons (and I have a feeling a friend of ours was in on this as she is there as a track referee) have not hurdled.


Such a great race ruined. :( :(

You're wrong! He did it on purpose. And, again, having hurdled or not having hurdled has little to do with whether it's apparent - to you. Bill Bellicheck never played football.

Also, the people making the decisions are probably lifelong track officials who have dedicated a significant portion of their free time to this sport; they should be given a bit more respect from someone who has done the same.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby Daisy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:12 am

One thing I noticed was that Robles was not celebrating the win. Presumably he was worried about what had happened.
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Re: Quotes on/by Liu

Postby Marlow » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:14 am

croflash wrote:http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0awNcYtgHbcWL/610x.jpg
Well, that second picture is pretty conclusive, really unfortunate for everyone.

Have to agree (don't wanna). As said above, arms hit in the hurdles; it's part of the event. But, for Liu to be totally in his lane, and Robles not, I think they HAD to make that decision.

My question is, why are they so averse to order a rerun (with Robles out)? The Referee can do that.
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