¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!


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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby uakari » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:25 am

i'm going to take back some of the harsher words i had for robles about being a dirty cheat, and i'm going to give him a bit of the benefit of doubt. i hope he learns a lesson from this and that he might even modify his form to avoid such collisions. i mean, i understand that there are unintended collisions in this event, but there's no justification for that kind of grabbing. no question about the DQ; the bigger issue is, there's no remedy for liu in this case.

is there anything a hurdler can do in terms of changing technique so that they don't swing so wide? i mean, what if oliver was a lefty (or vice versa) and they were adjacent to each other? can you imagine the clash of fists?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby uakari » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:26 am

something else i forgot to mention, from everything i've read, they consider themselves (liu & robles) to be friends...

(i still have a suspicion that robles was grabbing at his opponent in an act of desperation though...)
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Marlow » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:31 am

uakari wrote:is there anything a hurdler can do in terms of changing technique so that they don't swing so wide?

The arm-swing is not the problem. His being in Liu's lane is.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Grazerism » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:52 am

The saddest part of this story is Robles' comments since the incident.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:57 am

Marlow wrote:
uakari wrote:is there anything a hurdler can do in terms of changing technique so that they don't swing so wide?

The arm-swing is not the problem. His being in Liu's lane is.


YES.

I had to watch it a few times (okay many) because I focused on the arm action. Once you look at the big picture you can clearly see the lane violation.

I am saddened that anyone thinks an athlete with Robles record would intentionally grab someone, or even do it in desperation. I am not a Pollyanna but Marlow is. :P

Is there much more point arguing about this? It is a done deal.

I don't hate Robles although his comments are pretty tactless. I have always thought Liu was a class act and he sure has handled this well. 2012 is gonna be awesome!
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Marlow » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:58 am

mojo wrote:I have always thought Liu was a class act and he sure has handled this well. 2012 is gonna be awesome!

I have been a fan of the BIg 3 (Oliver, Liu, Robles)for a while now and altho my jingoism has indeed put Oliver at the top of my wish list since he broke out, my overwhelming sentimental favorite now (and rational pick) for London is LIU!!! I want all 4 (JR too) under 13 next year, but Liu MUST win! :twisted:
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Smoke » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:02 am

The lane violation is the problem not the arm contact.

Robles claiming he was dq'd because he is Cuban is ridiculous. SMH A trail leg over the next lane combined with contact with the other hurdler is a dq for anyone. Period.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Marlow » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:25 am

I was a Meet Referee one time when I DQed a girl for impeding, by being in another girl's lane and her dad AND coach yelled at me and said I was wrong, because the girl had hurdled A hurdle and it was the other girl's fault if she got hit. No amount of rules' citings appeased them and I'm sure they still hate my guts to this day!!
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:34 am

kuha wrote:Just got caught up on this thread. I'll echo Squak: THANK YOU gh.

I'll second, third, etc. That! Thank you gh.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby indigo » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:23 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:look at the video, Robles takes a peek over at Lui, who is gaining quickly and the next thing we know is Robles starts his sweeping, hand reaching out thingy ma jeg,,mmmmmmm 8-)


This is an interesting conclusion. My view is look at hurdle 1. Robles is very wide with his trail arm from the very beginning. Robles positions himself very far to the left to accommodate his action. His hand is open from the beginning. He hit 8. I think hit 9 more off balance than hard and ended up further right @10. He did not change the mechanics of trail arm any differently at 10 than at 1.

Liu is very quick feet. He is much quieter with his arms (reminds me of Milburn).
Hurdlers with a stronger punch finishing arm might have punched through the contact.


This type of contact is reminiscent of a friendly basketball game. The same amount of contact may not be called a foul by every player.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Jacksf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:36 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:
Pelpa wrote:Was it that:
Robles made contact with Liu?
Liu made contact with Robles?
or
both athletes made contact?

What I saw was both athletes being at the extremes of their lanes and contact made (concern in the rule to be applied here)...what was definately sure was that the contact beween the two athletes costed Robles a more spectacular finish, I don't know about any issue of Liu coming to pass Robles. Robles was severly thrown off by the contact.

Both athletes at best should have been thrown out and not only the Cuban.

Both athletes make contact and Robles has been the only banned athlete in the race. Why :?: Is it because of the victory :?:

You must be a member of the Cuban T&F Commission - :D
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:39 pm

indigo wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:look at the video, Robles takes a peek over at Lui, who is gaining quickly and the next thing we know is Robles starts his sweeping, hand reaching out thingy ma jeg,,mmmmmmm 8-)


This is an interesting conclusion. My view is look at hurdle 1. Robles is very wide with his trail arm from the very beginning. Robles positions himself very far to the left to accommodate his action. His hand is open from the beginning. He hit 8. I think hit 9 more off balance than hard and ended up further right @10. He did not change the mechanics of trail arm any differently at 10 than at 1.

Liu is very quick feet. He is much quieter with his arms (reminds me of Milburn).
Hurdlers with a stronger punch finishing arm might have punched through the contact.


This type of contact is reminiscent of a friendly basketball game. The same amount of contact may not be called a foul by every player.


Your not saying that Robles position on the track didnt suddenly change after he looked over at a charging Lui, are you? :shock:
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby bambam » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:45 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:... and ruined the great comeback of a classey x- world record holder ...


Great comeback is an understatement. From my day job, I never thought Liu could ever return to the top of world class as a sprinter/hurdler after Achilles' tendon surgery. No way - could not happen. Its a hard thing to recover from (also speaking personally on that) and losing just a little bit of push-off power I thought would prevent his returning to the top levels again. Kudos to him.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Marlow » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:23 pm

Liu says Robles' 'grab' was not intentional. Oliver tweeted that you'd have to be 'crazy' to think it intentional. At least I'm in reputable company. :D
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby JRM » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:56 pm

Marlow wrote:Liu says Robles' 'grab' was not intentional. Oliver tweeted that you'd have to be 'crazy' to think it intentional. At least I'm in reputable company. :D


Boldon commented that Allen Johnson said the same thing. It appears folks with a common interest agree here.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:01 pm

Robles also has to deal with the foot not clearing his hurdle. Opps
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby uakari » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:10 pm

marlow, who do you expect us to believe, you or our own eyes?????
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby bman » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:00 pm

Don't be fooled by Robles's comments, he knows what he did, look at him after the race. He only said that stuff because that is what people in Cuba want to hear. He looks better by playing the victim than by admitting he impeded his competitor.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Grazerism » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:56 am

I think the whole story reflects badly on Cuban political culture.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Marlow » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:44 pm

JRM wrote:
Marlow wrote:Liu says Robles' 'grab' was not intentional. Oliver tweeted that you'd have to be 'crazy' to think it intentional. At least I'm in reputable company. :D

Boldon commented that Allen Johnson said the same thing. It appears folks with a common interest agree here.

Perhaps it's as simple as - people very familiar with the event and the athletes themselves see it for what it really is. Occam's Razor applies - Robles hit Liu and impeded him. Simple as that. Ascribing 'intent' is specious.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:07 pm

Marlow wrote: Ascribing 'intent' is specious.


Yep, to be totally, totally, totally fair, NO ONE knows the intent. Robles's intent might have been to try and help Lui win, we dont know.

There is what it could have been and then...... there is what it looks like.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby GDAWG » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:41 pm

I would expect that since he's going to be the defending World Champion heading into the 2013 USA Nationals, Richardson will probably compete in the 110 hurdles, but probably will withdraw from the finals, unless he wants a national championship.

Can he run a flat 100?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby indigo » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:34 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:
indigo wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:look at the video, Robles takes a peek over at Lui, who is gaining quickly and the next thing we know is Robles starts his sweeping, hand reaching out thingy ma jeg,,mmmmmmm 8-)


This is an interesting conclusion. My view is look at hurdle 1. Robles is very wide with his trail arm from the very beginning. Robles positions himself very far to the left to accommodate his action. His hand is open from the beginning. He hit 8. I think hit 9 more off balance than hard and ended up further right @10. He did not change the mechanics of trail arm any differently at 10 than at 1.

Liu is very quick feet. He is much quieter with his arms (reminds me of Milburn).
Hurdlers with a stronger punch finishing arm might have punched through the contact.


This type of contact is reminiscent of a friendly basketball game. The same amount of contact may not be called a foul by every player.


Your not saying that Robles position on the track didnt suddenly change after he looked over at a charging Lui, are you? :shock:


Mr Squackee,
I am saying Robles would have prefered to be on the left of his lane. He very clearly sets up there. He hit 8 and it caused him to veer right. Mr TrackOnTheBrain is not given enough credit for his observations about running fast with Hurdles. Obviously Robles is experienced but given Richardson's time of 13.16, Robles was flying and either not ready for the hurdle or not in his best shape. (Matsuda had a drill to help overcome this difficulty.)

This is a good example of why Decathlon's have a lane of separation for the hurdles. I think this type of contact took place in '76 with Dixon.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:53 pm

indigo wrote:
Mr Squackee,
I am saying Robles would have prefered to be on the left of his lane. He very clearly sets up there. He hit 8 and it caused him to veer right. Mr TrackOnTheBrain is not given enough credit for his observations about running fast with Hurdles. Obviously Robles is experienced but given Richardson's time of 13.16, Robles was flying and either not ready for the hurdle or not in his best shape. (Matsuda had a drill to help overcome this difficulty.)

This is a good example of why Decathlon's have a lane of separation for the hurdles. I think this type of contact took place in '76 with Dixon.


Dear Mr. Indigo, you addressing me as Mr. is not deserved, but thank you. I know virtually nothing about running the hurdles. I dont think Robles wanted to drift into Lui, but once he had, he made a few instinctive swipes in Lui's direction which is understandable in the heat of battle. What Robles said afterward is not defensible.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:27 pm

I know virtually nothing about running the hurdles.

hey we finally agree on something.
:D
(as an aside to my dear friend-sad about Wheating...I think we cursed him!). :? :?
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