¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!


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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby proofs in the pudd'in » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:58 am

Marlow wrote:
proofs in the pudd'in wrote:Liu deserves Gold!!! not Silver. I do not know why, after reviewing the tape, they don't give Liu the Gold and Robles the Silver?

That would be the 'best' solution, but not the 'fair' one, and it could never happen with the rules we have.


Yes, I know the rules do not allow it, but that is how I see it and I do not think it would be outside the judicial capabilities of those involved.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby nicest person ever » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:05 pm

uakari wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVcK5Ss5h5o



After watching this vid, it's pretty obvious that Robles needed to be DQ'd. And it's not even close.

That said, I still can't say with 100% certainity whether it was intentional or not.

It definitely LOOKED intentional, given that Robles hand was closed up until that point, and then he suddenly opens it and grabs Liu's arm like that, however, I think there is a chance that Robles just felt off balance or who knows what and opened his hand not to grab Liu, but just for unrelated reasons, and it just looked really bad and intentional the way it played out. If I had to guess I'd say probly 80% chance it was intentional, 20% chance it was unintentional, based on that vid. But no way for anyone to know with absolute 100% certainty.

In any case, intentional or not, it clearly should be a DQ regardless, given that Liu was staying in his own lane, and it was Robles that moved his arm/shoulder/leg etc into the airspace of Liu's lane, not the other way around, when the collision occurred, so, that's on Robles, and that's a DQ.

In the end, it just sucks for Liu. No fair.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Daisy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:18 pm

7-sided wrote:mojo/club-level coach, when challenged you can certainly be a 5-letter with the best of them but you're a 4-letter for sure.

This is ridiculous. Why would you bring a disagreement down to this level?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Pego » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:19 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I will say that not everything people learn about competing in sports is learned in a controlled environment under the supervision of well-trained coaches


While having no dog in this fight, I'd just like to post on the margin that mojo is a former Canadian record holder in 400H, so, no, she is not just an armchair bookworm coach. She has been in the trenches for decades. I had a good fortune to meet her and her husband in Eugene and yes, they do know hurdles.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Jacksf » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:19 pm

I just watched the replay several times, and then came to the message board.
I didn't realize that there was a discussion about whether this was intentional or not; I just wanted to examine the race more closely.
It seems clear to me that Liu had already moved ahead of Robles and Richardson, and would have won the race had there been no interference.
I have never seen Liu caught on the run-in to the tape, and so I am sure that he would have won the gold medal. He has to be disappointed.
It's a shame that can't give him the gold, but I understand that the medals can't be given out based on extrapolation.
Anyway, Liu is back; and Richardson has moved to the front of US hurdling. It seems he's broken out of the pack very suddenly, but I haven't been following him.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby croflash » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:20 pm

To those who think Robles did it intentionally:

David Oliver
doliversub13 David Oliver
People who think Robles did it on purpose are crazy and haven't seen his races, late in races he's been getting wide with his arms...
5 hours ago

doliversub13 David Oliver
Hitting that 8th hurdle just made it worse and why would you do something intentionally that us going to mess you up as well
4 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/doliversub13


The normally fast-finishing Liu said he thought the contact was not intentional but that he would have won the gold medal without it. When Richardson was informed of Robles’s disqualification, he was in the midst of recounting his life story to reporters and reveling in the silver medal. In stunned silence, he leaned forward, covered his face and began to cry.

“My first reaction to that is it’s disappointing that somebody so great with such accomplishments was kind of robbed of the opportunity to really display his athleticism,” he said of Robles. “I respect Robles completely. Even when I wasn’t running fast, Robles always spoke and always maintained a good rapport with me.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/sport ... n-400.html
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:24 pm

By the way 7 sided this comment says much about you.




"mojo/club-level coach, when challenged you can certainly be a 5-letter with the best of them but you're a 4-letter for sure".

A woman who has a strong opinion that is different than your own gets called the c word?(and we all know that is what you mean).

Well at least I do now believe you when you say you sometimes resorted to trying knock an opponent out of a race.

I don't name call here but my DH has a few choice names for you.

And don't try and weasel out of what you meant 7sided.




As far as intentional-DO says it wasn't and I think he knows Robles well.
Last edited by mojo on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Jacksf » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:27 pm

Jacksf wrote:I just watched the replay several times, and then came to the message board.
I didn't realize that there was a discussion about whether this was intentional or not; I just wanted to examine the race more closely.
It seems clear to me that Liu had already moved ahead of Robles and Richardson, and would have won the race had there been no interference.
I have never seen Liu caught on the run-in to the tape, and so I am sure that he would have won the gold medal. He has to be disappointed.
It's a shame that can't give him the gold, but I understand that the medals can't be given out based on extrapolation.
Anyway, Liu is back; and Richardson has moved to the front of US hurdling. It seems he's broken out of the pack very suddenly, but I haven't been following him.


Ok - watched the replay again.
I am going to agree that it was intentional. Robles suddenly swings his arm out farther and higher than before - maybe half hoping to catch Liu as Liu seems to be catching and passing him.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Giant Panda » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:30 pm

It's quite sweet to read a discussion in which track fans swear blind that an athlete would never knowingly cheat. A welcome tonic to the usual cynicism, and utterly bonkers :lol:
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:33 pm

Giant Panda wrote:Maybe if Robles ran the race in a straight line he might have ran faster.


If you are talking about the difference in the length of the line he ran versus if he had run dead-on straight, I think that the differential is trivial. If you take a steel 100m tape and make it 'completely' tight so that pulling it up with a given force does not displace it and then allow one end to come in enough to pull the tape 10cms up. The amount that it has to come in is almost trivial something like 0.01cm.

Also, he missed on H8, grabbed on 9 and grabbed on 10.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Dutra » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:46 pm

After watching the vid a few more times....I can see a pretty good argument for Robles grabbing Liu's arm intentionally.

It almost looked like he missed with the first swipe.

That has to be a DQ intentional or not. Lui was pulled back.
Last edited by Dutra on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Daisy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:47 pm

One bonus here is no more MR Nice guy stuff from the hurdlers. All out war with the Olympic gold as prize! This will probably sell better.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:51 pm

Daisy, I don't mind you calling the fouls, just blow the whistle on both sides.

mojo wrote:By the way 7 sided this comment says much about you.

"mojo/club-level coach, when challenged you can certainly be a 5-letter with the best of them but you're a 4-letter for sure".

A woman who has a strong opinion that is different than your own gets called the c word?(and we all know that is what you mean).

Well at least I do now believe you when you say you sometimes resorted to trying knock an opponent out of a race.

I don't name call here but my DH has a few choice names for you.

And don't try and weasel out of what you meant 7sided.

As far as intentional-DO says it wasn't and I think he knows Robles well.

You know damn well what I meant but it's typical! Hey, You wanna show you're tough enough to start a scrum but when the elbows come back harder than you expected it's "...but, I'm a girl!" Kind of defeats the whole woman with a strong opinion thing. :?

mojo wrote:That is so assinine that I will now dismiss your opinion on anything to do with hurdles.


mojo wrote:I was talking to you.

I am pretty sure my husband and I know much more about hurdling than you do no matter what level we coach at the present time. Bragging, says a whole lot more about you

I will concede to many on most events but not hurdles. I'll note that!

DH has coached Olympians by the way. If you looked at his website I dare you to say he does not know hurdles inside and out. He has no time for forums like these but if he did he could talk circles around you when it comes to any aspect of the event. Pulling rank, here?

ANY athlete who spends time trying to win by grabbing or intentionally impeding another is one lousy hurdler. If you or any one else coaches people to do that then you have no business being in the sport. I never implied that I did this any time other than once or taught anyone else to do it or advocated that it was right, I just answered jazz's question honestly! But, you assumed. And any coach who starts a thread to cry about their athletes being lured by supposedly incompetent coaches may need to find another avocation
...
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:56 pm

No I don't know please tell me the 5 letter word and the 4 letter word.

take your time if you need a dictionary.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Giant Panda » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:59 pm

26mi235 wrote:If you are talking about the difference in the length of the line he ran versus if he had run dead-on straight, I think that the differential is trivial. If you take a steel 100m tape and make it 'completely' tight so that pulling it up with a given force does not displace it and then allow one end to come in enough to pull the tape 10cms up. The amount that it has to come in is almost trivial something like 0.01cm.


Is that what you thought I was talking about?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Daisy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:59 pm

7-sided wrote:Bragging

Pulling rank

Did the 'crime' justify the response though?

7-sided wrote:I never implied that I did this any time other than once or taught anyone else to do it or advocated that it was right

I agree with that. 'Intentional is not premeditated' was your position, if I recall.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:00 pm

proofs in the pudd'in wrote:Yes, I know the rules do not allow it, but that is how I see it and I do not think it would be outside the judicial capabilities of those involved.

Since you admit that the rules don''t allow it, are you suggesting that the officials should go outside the rules to award the medals?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:04 pm

mojo wrote:No I don't know please tell me the 5 letter word and the 4 letter word.

take your time if you need a dictionary.

If you don't know, then why the hysterics! Oh, now I'm being sexist for using hysterics! No, I'm showing you that you're now hysterical (though you could be related to hyster) because you wrote...
mojo wrote:A woman who has a strong opinion that is different than your own gets called the c word?(and we all know that is what you mean).

So, which is it? Do you know or don't you? Maybe it's time to bake (you mentioned that's one of your pasttimes, no?)
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:05 pm

Come on mojo and 7-sided. Life is too short for this. Both of you know and love the sport, so just apologize to each other and get back to talking track. This isn't TrackShark.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:08 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Come on mojo and 7-sided. Life is too short for this. Both of you know and love the sport, so just apologize to each other and get back to talking track. This isn't TrackShark.


I appreciate your advice jazz. Don't feel inclined to apologize for anything I said but I promise to move on.

These are incredible champs full of drama and excitement. I am loving every minute of them. :)
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:15 pm

Daisy wrote:
7-sided wrote:Bragging

Pulling rank

Did the 'crime' justify the response though?

7-sided wrote:I never implied that I did this any time other than once or taught anyone else to do it or advocated that it was right

I agree with that. 'Intentional is not premeditated' was your position, if I recall.

The 'crime' justify the response? Why should I have to determine her level of hostility? It was unwarranted. Play nice and people will play nice with you. She didn't (doesn't) and received what she gave. Proportionality is for the UN.

I was saying that someone doesn't have to be an international level hurdler to see that Robles impeded Liu; I said that hurdlers do impede each other on purpose and later, and only when asked (what I thought to be an interesting question by jazz, btw), admitted that I have. mojo makes it quite clear that not only is she superior because her husband has coached Olympians and no one knows more than she does about hurdles...that I'm a lousy hurdler. :shock: :lol: When we have to qualify our personal athletic accomplishments to give opinions on this messageboard there will be far fewer posts.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Daisy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:21 pm

7-sided wrote:Proportionality is for the UN.

And helps the message boards stay on track (excuse pun :roll: ). I'm with jazz, above, on this, we've still got a week and then we can all get banned for six months :)
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:23 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Come on mojo and 7-sided. Life is too short for this. Both of you know and love the sport, so just apologize to each other and get back to talking track. This isn't TrackShark.

Do I gotta...(little boy voice)
<exhale>
mojo, I apologize for calling you names (though "dove" and "angel" were not my first choices, they will be forever more). You are a very knowledgable coach who has dedicated her life to the sport and to helping young people learn the proper ways to appreciate this labor of love we call track and field.

jazz, can I have ice cream now? (little boy voice) :(
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby uakari » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:55 pm

mojo wrote:Unless the guy blatantly grabs you, and in 50 years of watching hurdles my husband has never seen an intentional grab nor have I


sorry, mojo, i find the above quote incredible. that's exactly what robles did, blatantly try to grab liu. actually, not try, he did grab him a few times. not saying you ever saw it, i'm saying that your statement that this does not happen is incredible. just ask quinonez on the linked posted before. the article posted quotes him as saying "i'm normally a very peaceful person, but i almost went over and punched ladji" for grabbing at him several times.

is there a video of that semifinal in the euros (with doucoure and quinonez)?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—the cover jinx!!!!!!!!!

Postby trackonthebrain » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:09 pm

7-sided wrote:
Novianv2 wrote:Ok, I don't want to get into a war of words but 7-sided, have your ever hurdled? I ask this b/c if you have, you'd have to ask yourself if grabbing another hurdler mid-race during a WC final while you are running essentially 13 flat is actually on the top of your mind. Note the word "intentionally".

Anyway, I agree with most here – a great race and I can't wait to see them do it again next year! :D

Certainly, you're not implying that I would have had to have once run hurdles to see that Robles obviously impeded Liu? He grabbed him, it was intentional and whether he was running 13 seconds or 14 seconds he knew what he was doing...slowing Liu.

mojo wrote:Very wrong decision. And like I said I very much wanted Liu to win.

DH is 6"5 and used to weight 200 pounds (yes he is lighter now). Never ran a hurdle race where there was not contact with someone- you fight through it. Yes Robles did affect Liu but not intentionally or blatantly.

People making these decisons (and I have a feeling a friend of ours was in on this as she is there as a track referee) have not hurdled.


Such a great race ruined. :( :(

You're wrong! He did it on purpose. And, again, having hurdled or not having hurdled has little to do with whether it's apparent - to you. Bill Bellicheck never played football.

Also, the people making the decisions are probably lifelong track officials who have dedicated a significant portion of their free time to this sport; they should be given a bit more respect from someone who has done the same.



7 sided, your position is without merit. For those who have hurdled, it happens in literally every hurdles race. Every race. It is not intentional at all. When you run hurdles, you fluctuate between being off balance and on balance throughout the race. Your arms steady you when you need to regain balance. If they flail, it's because they are needed to right your balance when you probably have only 2 steps to get it together before you have to deal with the next hurdle - all while going at breakneck speed. Believe me, at those speeds, there is no way you are intentionally impeding the next runner.

You may drift from one side of your lane to the other due to this balance issue. And when you are running at low 13's the sensation is that the hurdles are coming at you very quickly - almost too quick for you to react. In addition to the competition.

Further, when you hurdle at that level, you have learned to focus on only your lane a long long time ago. There is just so much going on in a hurdles race that you have to be a focused person to even do well in the event. You are trying to maximize your output rather than being concerned about the runner next to you. Many times, you don't even know how you finished until after the race.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby trackonthebrain » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:19 pm

uakari wrote:
mojo wrote:Unless the guy blatantly grabs you, and in 50 years of watching hurdles my husband has never seen an intentional grab nor have I


sorry, mojo, i find the above quote incredible. that's exactly what robles did, blatantly try to grab liu. actually, not try, he did grab him a few times. not saying you ever saw it, i'm saying that your statement that this does not happen is incredible. just ask quinonez on the linked posted before. the article posted quotes him as saying "i'm normally a very peaceful person, but i almost went over and punched ladji" for grabbing at him several times.

is there a video of that semifinal in the euros (with doucoure and quinonez)?



That's after the race. After you have bumped with another hurdler, you may feel this way after the race. And during the race, you are conscious of the contact, but believe me, your goal is to move over on your hurdle away from the other runner and leave him(her) if you can. That's the best way to deal with contact. Many times you may bump over several hurdles before one hurdler loses his(her) balance.

In Robles' case, Liu hit the hurdle before the bump. That's what knocked him off balance. So his arms were probably flailing a bit to right himself. Meanwhile Robles, being big and long, was running on the edge of his hurdle and their arms collided. Had Liu not hit the hurdle before the bump, they probably would have never touched. But it happens in every race and is a necessary evil for hurdlers. Put another way, most hurdlers don't cry about it - or fight about it.

This all is only happening because such major titles are on the line - not to mention the money that is at stake.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:35 pm

trackonthe brain-you and I see it the same way.(and so far many top hurdlers seems to agree including Liu).

7 sided-your gracious apology has thrown me off balance. :wink: Thank you.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby tm71 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:57 pm

if robles went over liu xiang's hurdle isn't that a dq as well, without even considering the grabbing of his arm ?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:21 pm

tm71 wrote:if robles went over liu xiang's hurdle isn't that a dq as well, without even considering the grabbing of his arm ?


Yes it is a DQ if that is what he did.

Also, the full off-balance was not until the next hurdle; DR hit him both times. And, look at Robles and Liu after the race; does that look like an innocent racer or one that his hoping his transgression is not penalized?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby AS » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:37 pm

I'm pretty sure no one has answered my questions from about 3 pages back:
1. who protested?
2. was a protest required, or could officials DQ off their own bat?

And bonus question:
3. why no re-race??
Last edited by AS on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby DecFan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:40 pm

AS wrote:I'm prettyy sure no one has answered my questions from about 3 pages back:
1. who protested?
2. was a protest required, or could officials DQ off their own bat?

And bonus question:
3. why no re-race??


I too would like to know the answers to these questions, particularly the 3rd. Since no one thinks Richardson would have won had the incident not taken place, isn't this the most compelling case for rerunning the event (sans Robles)?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby uakari » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:10 pm

but how would they re-run the race? if there was any justice, liu would have the gold and richardson silver, but fouls happen in the middle distances and they don't get re-run. remember burka-rodriguez and jamal-tomasheva incidents. the aggressors got DQ but their victims don't get redress (nor did kallur).

from what they said on univ. sp, and i think here, there was a chinese protest, and a cuban appeal, which was denied.

in my book, robles is a dirty runner and i hope he falls flat on his ass in london. i'm no longer a fan of his. he's like a drug cheat to me.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby AS » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:18 pm

uakari wrote:in my book, robles is a dirty runner and i hope he falls flat on his ass in london.


I find the retributive vitriol around here astounding... was losing the WC title not enough 'payback' for you?

Personally I hope he comes back out in London and races Liu again and that we have a clean race
where we can actually find out who is the fastest...

It remains unclear to me that Liu would have "certainly" won... he still had to navigate the final hurdle, as did Robles... a lot could still have happened...
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Dutra » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:29 pm

Robles grabbed Liu. He didn't just place his arm or hand in front of him. He certainly pulled him back. Now as to whether it was intentional or not I'm not sure however what other explanation is there for grabbing the arm of another runner in the race?
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Vielleicht » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:08 pm

DJG wrote:As I mentioned on the Current Events -Oliver's form post.
It is quite possible that Robles moved to the right of the lane to avoid being hit by Oliver in the lane to his left. Oliver is well known to hug the right side of his lane. I don't think Robles wanted to get smacked by Oliver.

Q.) are the lanes too narrow for the size (width) of these athletes? Hurdlers are generaly of the larger body-type.

Actually the Chinese athlete Jiang Fan said that he was smacked by Oliver in the semi even before the first hurdle...
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby 7-sided » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:10 pm

mojo wrote:trackonthe brain-you and I see it the same way.(and so far many top hurdlers seems to agree including Liu).

7 sided-your gracious apology has thrown me off balance. :wink: Thank you.

I was certainly being a "4-letter" (or a "5-letter" :wink: ) and I'm appreciative of you accepting my sincere apology.
trackonthebrain wrote:7 sided, your position is without merit. For those who have hurdled, it happens in literally every hurdles race. Every race. It is not intentional at all. When you run hurdles, you fluctuate between being off balance and on balance throughout the race. Your arms steady you when you need to regain balance. If they flail, it's because they are needed to right your balance when you probably have only 2 steps to get it together before you have to deal with the next hurdle - all while going at breakneck speed. Believe me, at those speeds, there is no way you are intentionally impeding the next runner.

You may drift from one side of your lane to the other due to this balance issue. And when you are running at low 13's the sensation is that the hurdles are coming at you very quickly - almost too quick for you to react. In addition to the competition.

Further, when you hurdle at that level, you have learned to focus on only your lane a long long time ago. There is just so much going on in a hurdles race that you have to be a focused person to even do well in the event. You are trying to maximize your output rather than being concerned about the runner next to you. Many times, you don't even know how you finished until after the race.

Without merit? :? I'm not sure if you have a pent up need to use the term but I can assure you that you used it incorrectly. Knowing that I have spoken to other hurdlers who have admitted it makes me wonder why you feel the need to inject your "expertise" into this? I can only imagine that the reason why you are "expounding" on this is that you want to "out" yourself - your hurdling abilities, if you have them- and that's fine, but trying to speak for all the other hurdlers, that's stupid.

When you mention things like "when you hurdle at that level, you learn to..." its patronizing. You may not see it as such so I'm letting you know. Also, if it doesn't happen, if a hurdler only has time to worry about his lane, if he's only "trying to maximize your output rather than being concerned about the runner next to you..." then how do you account for 1987 Indianapolis?

If you have hurdled at a high (enough) level [not that I believe anyone has to], you KNOW that this goes on in 110h (and I'm sure it went on when there were 120h); if you know some of the top players in the 110h they will readily admit this to you - that some of the contact is not incidental, some will even laugh about it (it's amazing what athletes will admit over their favorite adult beverage(s) when they're looking back); and if you knew these things were true, and they are, then you would never post that my position does not have merit. It may not be universal, but it has merit. If this last paragraph comes off as a little patronizing, trust me, I think I know how you feel. :wink:
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Marlow » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:51 pm

7-sided wrote:When you mention things like "when you hurdle at that level, you learn to..."

Here's what I DO know. I have been hurdling every year for over 45 years. I have been coaching hurdles for the last 20. I have been to many more hundreds of meets. I have hit others and been hit. I have seen people hit others. But NEVER . . . have I seen or heard of someone DELIBERATELY hitting another hurdler with an arm or hand. The chances are just as good that the hitter will be knocked off stride as the hittee. Unimpeded arm motion is ESSENTIAL to one's balance, whether you're giving it or getting it. Now maybe, just maybe, it HAS happened (surely it MUST have, somewhere, sometime) and you have been in it or seen it, but . . . I watched the replay several times, from several angles, and Robles did NOT do that intentionally. Of that I am certain.

From Liu:

Liu wrote:"Robles hit me twice, at the ninth hurdle he pulled at me, but it wasn't intentional," former Olympic champion Liu told reporters.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby mojo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:32 pm

Hurdling for 45 years is simply remarkable Marlow. 8-) 8-)

And again I totally agree.

Liu is a class act. Note he is not commenting on the DQ issue -only a few hurdlers have said anything about that. DO said that Liu told him after "this is all only a game". (meaning the sport not the DQ thing)

Very classy tweets by DO by the way.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:45 pm

Marlow wrote:But NEVER . . . have I seen or heard of someone DELIBERATELY hitting another hurdler with an arm or hand.

I take it that you don't take 7-sided at his word that he has deliberately hit another hurdler?
Marlow wrote:I watched the replay several times, from several angles, and Robles did NOT do that intentionally. Of that I am certain.

The folks who are "certain" that Robles' foul was unintentional have no more basis for their claim than the folks who are "certain" that Robles' foul was intentional, unless of course you happen to be psychic. Believing something is different than knowing it. There is a difference.
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Re: ¶2011 WC: m110H—Robles DQed; Richardson Gold!

Postby Dutra » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:55 pm

Marlow wrote:
7-sided wrote:When you mention things like "when you hurdle at that level, you learn to..."

Here's what I DO know. I have been hurdling every year for over 45 years. I have been coaching hurdles for the last 20. I have been to many more hundreds of meets. I have hit others and been hit. I have seen people hit others. But NEVER . . . have I seen or heard of someone DELIBERATELY hitting another hurdler with an arm or hand. The chances are just as good that the hitter will be knocked off stride as the hittee. Unimpeded arm motion is ESSENTIAL to one's balance, whether you're giving it or getting it. Now maybe, just maybe, it HAS happened (surely it MUST have, somewhere, sometime) and you have been in it or seen it, but . . . I watched the replay several times, from several angles, and Robles did NOT do that intentionally. Of that I am certain.



I can certainly understand whacking the guy in the next lane with a flailing arm unintentionally however how does one explain grabbing and pulling another runner in the same fashion?
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