marathon qualifying


Main message board: for the discussion of topical track & field items only.

marathon qualifying

Postby Guest » Thu May 29, 2003 1:23 am

i believe good runners should be allowed in the marathon trials based on their track 10k times, for example men who can run under 29 minutes on the track would be allowed entry based on their 10k time because they are a proven good distance runner, the 10k time would be tougher than the marathon qualifying time, because the runner has the luxury of running 20 less miles to qualify. look at how many 10k runners have performed great in their debut, a time of 34 minutes should allow women entry.
Guest
 

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby dl » Thu May 29, 2003 3:40 pm

They had such a qualifying procedure, for women only, several years back.
dl
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:30 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby Guest » Fri May 30, 2003 4:26 am

I agree - taking it a step further, because the marathon takes so long to completely recover from (and recovery interupts training) - athletes who have proven themselves worthy should be allowed an Olympic birth w/o running the trials. KK and Drossin should NOT have to run the trials prior to the Olympics next year - marathoners at that level need to plan their peaks well in advance, and the trials for KK and Drossin shouldn't be in the mix.

If KK or Drossin suffers from cramps, the flu, etc. at the trials and cannot run/qualify, the best will not be representing the US. It's time to rethink our qualifying standards for the Olympics to aviod another Dan O'Brien.
Guest
 

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby jsquire » Fri May 30, 2003 7:23 am

If an marathoner wishes to represent the USA in both the worlds and the Olympics, here's the schedule:

August 23-31 -- World Championships
February 7-- Men's Oly trials
April 4 -- Women's Oly trials
August 13-29 -- Olympic Games

S/he has to run all three, with no time to make a paycheck. That's why Khannouchi isn't running at the worlds; he says he wants to run the Olympics but doing so keeps him out of a money marathon until Decmber 2004 at the earliest. The American system actually penalizes athletes financially who wear our colors at major international championships.
jsquire
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby gh » Fri May 30, 2003 8:02 am

>I agree - taking it a step further, because the
>marathon takes so long to completely recover from
>(and recovery interupts training) - athletes who
>have proven themselves worthy should be allowed
>an Olympic birth w/o running the trials. KK and
>Drossin should NOT have to run the trials prior
>to the Olympics next year - marathoners at that
>level need to plan their peaks well in advance,
>and the trials for KK and Drossin shouldn't be in
>the mix. >>

So long as USATF has (or feels) the need to sell the OT as a cash cow, it has to guarantee to the sponsors that all the stud muffins will be there, and they're getting the "real" OT qualifying, not just some secondary part of it.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby gh » Fri May 30, 2003 8:20 am

<<If an marathoner wishes to represent the USA in both the worlds and the Olympics, here's the schedule:
August 23-31 -- World Championships
February 7-- Men's Oly trials
August 13-29 -- Olympic Games>>

An old-school runner like Frank Shorter might well say, "and?...."

I don't have his 1971 track schedule at hand, but can reconstruct at least part of it quickly:

April 2
2nd in Texas Relays 2M in 8:33
April 24
won Drake 10K (6M) in "28:24"
May 15
2nd in Bakersfield 5K in 13:35
June 6
2nd in AAU Marathon in 2:18
June 24
3rd in the AAU 5K (3M ) in "13:30"
June 26
won the 10K (6M) in "28:27"
July 2
2nd vs. Soviet Union in 10K in 28:41
August 5
1st in Pan-Am marathon in 2:22
end of November
won AAU XC title
December 6
won Fukuoka M in 2:13

1972
don't know what he did in 5K other than a 13:42 on May 20.
April 6
2nd in Texas Relays 10K (6M) in "29:25"
April 29
won Drake 10K (6M) in "28;38"
June 16
2nd in AAU 10K in 28;12
July 2
won OT 10K in 28:35
July 9
won OT marathon in 2:16
August 31
3rd in heat in OG in 27:58 (American Record)
September 3
5th in OG in 27:51 (AR)
September 10
won OG marathon in 2:12
December 3
won Fukuoka M in 2:10:30

Now let's talk some more about how hard it is to run more than a couple of quality distance races a year, marathon or not.
gh
 
Posts: 46335
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby dl » Fri May 30, 2003 8:20 am

I don't agree that running U.S. Champs the Worlds penalizes athletes financially, except Khannouchi. First of all, the BEST chance for Americans to make money is in the U.S. Champs/Olympic Trials marathons, since they have significant U.S.-only prize money.

Secondly, I don't know Khannouchi's reasoning, but there are many top marathoners who skip the Worlds. It simply isn't as important of a race as it used to be. But Khannouchi also isn't a championship marathoner, IMHO. He runs well in cool conditions on a fast course. Look at the Edmonton debacle.
dl
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:30 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby Guest » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:42 am

Secondly, I
>don't know Khannouchi's reasoning, but there are
>many top marathoners who skip the Worlds. It
>simply isn't as important of a race as it used to
>be. But Khannouchi also isn't a championship
>marathoner

Rigorous testing? EPO?
Guest
 

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby jsquire » Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:22 am

Here's the important parts:

>1971
>June 6 -- 2nd in AAU Marathon in 2:18

>August 5 -- 1st in Pan-Am marathon in 2:22

>December 6 -- won Fukuoka M in 2:13

>1972
>July 9 -- won OT marathon in 2:16

>September 10 -- won OG marathon in 2:12

>December 3 -- won Fukuoka M in 2:10:30

His marathons were well spread out. Marathons incur real muscle damage, even for great runners like Shorter. I'm not implying that I know what it's like to run a 2:12, but I do know that it's impossible to understand the aftereffects of a marathon until you do one.

The world's biggest paydays are in April and October/November; unless your find a race in January or July, you're cutting it much too close if your long-term goal is to make as much money as possible.

Yes, I did think it somewhat odd that Khannouchi folded in Edmonton with no excuse that made any sense. I hate to think the announcement of EPO testing shortly before the meet may have been the real explanation, but only a fool wouldn't consider it possible.
jsquire
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby Guest » Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:36 am

jsquire is correct - the marathon tears you up. Frank Shorter was the exception - not the rule (won Oly Trials in July, the Olympics ins Sept.?!!!) - perhaps rather than running a seperate Oly. trials in winter/spring, we should tie it into a fall marathon the previous year (NY, Chicago). This would allow for more recovery, plus give our marathoners a true test against the world's best.
Guest
 

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby CoachKoby » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:27 pm

Speaking of drugs, will the sport ever get "cleaned up?" Heard that Frank Shorter quit as head of the drug commission (whatever the name of the group was). What can be done so athletes don't think that they have to use drugs to be good?
CoachKoby
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby dl » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:36 pm

Will our society ever be totally free of drugs? Of course not. Is it possible that track & field, or any sport, will ever be totally rid of drugs? No way.

But we've got the best testing system of any major sport, so let's move on and focus on the positive. Sure, it sucks when we hear of an athlete testing positive, but that means the system is working.

In most pro sports, testing is a sham and you don't have any positives.

Please, let's not let this thread (or forum) regress into one dominated by drugs talk.
dl
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:30 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby jsquire » Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:09 am

>perhaps rather than running a
>seperate Oly. trials in winter/spring, we should
>tie it into a fall marathon the previous year
>(NY, Chicago). This would allow for more
>recovery, plus give our marathoners a true test
>against the world's best.

The last US marathoner who won a medal at a WC or OG was Steve Spence in 1991. He qualified for the team the preceding fall. The AAU used to use existing races such as Boston or Yonkers to pick its Olympic marathoners, so there's some precedent to it. Better yet would be the promise that if you finished in the top ten at the WC or OG, you're automatically in the next one.
jsquire
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby magpie » Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:42 am

The last US marathoner who
>won a medal at a WC or OG was Steve Spence in
>1991. He qualified for the team the preceding
>fall. The AAU used to use existing races such as
>Boston or Yonkers to pick its Olympic
>marathoners, so there's some precedent to it.
>Better yet would be the promise that if you
>finished in the top ten at the WC or OG, you're
>automatically in the next one.

this does not alter your main point, but mark plaatjes, who won wc marathon gold in 93, is an american.
magpie
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby jsquire » Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:57 am

My mistake! I really hate those people that don't consider immigrants "real Americans", so don't take it that way. I think he made the US team based on time, right?
jsquire
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: marathon qualifying

Postby luv2run » Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:12 pm

>Speaking of drugs, will the sport ever get
>"cleaned up?" Heard that Frank Shorter quit as
>head of the drug commission (whatever the name of
>the group was). What can be done so athletes
>don't think that they have to use drugs to be
>good?


Shorter did step down as the President of the US AntiDoping Agency (USADA). From I have heard it was not anything against what was going on, he had gotten it up and running and wanted to write a book and take care of some other commitments/desires. Frank had the pull to get some things done at the start.

Athletes have been using drugs since the dawn of man and contests. Read the early runners and cyclists taking strychnine for instance. More testing and more out of competition testing would be the route. I saw a proposal to do away with event testing and use those resources for out of competition, unannounced testing. Considering the staffing needed to test at an event, it is an interesting proposal. Of course you need a lot more Doping Control Officers trained.

A blood test for all drugs would be a good step as well.
luv2run
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], user4 and 10 guests