Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]


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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:35 pm

26mi235 wrote:She ran one 51.45 while hoping against hope in the team battle. Do you think that is a standard representation of what she will run as a 400 gal? Also, you have to realize that races at 800 and above are tactical and she has rarely raced runners in a tactical situation before. Did that race go out in 28 or 33?


51.45 is a representation of very good speed. Of which she has more of than many other 400m, and most 800m.
That speed is the reason that you think she can do so well in the 800m.
With that kind of speed, tactics shouldn't matter. She should be able to go with the pace and run everyone down on the final straightaway. Isn't that the logic of why you and the others think she should be an 800m runner?
But, it isn't working out that way - because the 800m is not a speed race. It is not a sprint. Speed is a part of it, but not the main part of it. Endurance is.
LR might have the speed needed for the 800m, but perhaps not enough endurance to improve significantly.
If speed is her best asset, then she should be using it in a speed event - the 400m.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:15 am

OK, a question. A couple of years ago she almost made the Finals at the Trials in the 800. I would guess that she was not close to making the finals in the 400 if she had done that event instead. Why would she be getting better at the 400 rather than the 800. Lonewolf indicated that she looked bigger and had put on more weight (and muscle). That could be a reason. What does this bode for the future; As she gets stronger to carry that weight will she get better at the 400 faster than at the 800?

It was mentioned that an 800 meter runner with speed does not need tactics to get to the Final and any failure in that department is an indication that they are not best placed in the 800. Now, I think that there are several 800 runners with great speed that have failed to advance, including the the WR guy and Borzo maybe also had that problem and the Vessey as well). Now I agree that this is only one aspect and Jack makes a decent case for the 400 question.

Given that she 'crosses' the 400/800 barrier better than most athletes (especially those coming from the sprint side) it seems like it is not a case of 400 or 800, neither she nor Vin need to make an irreversible decision at this point.

To me it seems more likely that her good speed is enough to be an asset at becoming world-class in the 800 while she does not have the speed to be world class in the 400. Put another way, at the level of a freshman it is really a longshot to make it as a world-class athlete. It seems that the question is not: "Which one will she be better at?"; but "Which one is she more likely to be World Class in?"
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:59 am

This is purely anecdotal, so please take it with a grain of salt...but I've noticed that it is not that uncommon for a young girl to be good from 100m to 800m even up to 1500 - until about age 16 or so. You constantly see it in YOUTH track (re: Reynolds, Rogers). Also, on the east coast, where you may have schools that don't have their own track, you will find schools in MD, NJ, NY, VA where XC runners are also fairly decent high school sprinters - the coach makes all track athletes run XC; they have no choice. That said, though MOST here would certainly say that Meredith Rainey (Valmon) was an 800m runner she was ALSO a decent 400m runner (WHO DIDN'T HAVE SUB-23 SPEED), though few would have called her a 1500m runner. Matter of fact, if Rainey-Valmon had chosen to concentrate on the 400m she would have been as good at 400m as Miles-Clark, imo - eventually. Just did a quick search and Rainey won her conference meets all 4 years (53.93, 53.20, 52.76, 51.56); in her last two years she also won the 800 at the conference meet (2:08.43; 2:07.84) and ran 2nd in the 200m (24.14); and I think she won NCAA 800m in 1990. Her PB would eventually be lowered to 1:57.04. She made every US team between '91 and '99 except Barcelona and Athens.

As for Roesler, I can't say why she hasn't progressed but I did basically predict, on this messageboard, that she wouldn't improve a year and a half ago. And her 51.45r nearly confirms my reasons why: she might not be an 800m runner. She might be WR-level 400h with practice...

26mi235 wrote:To me it seems more likely that her good speed is enough to be an asset at becoming world-class in the 800 while she does not have the speed to be world class in the 400. Put another way, at the level of a freshman it is really a longshot to make it as a world-class athlete.


Another thing: I've proven through multiple post examples that she DOES (or at one point DID) have enough speed to be an elite, World Class 400m runner - especially when you consider that she ran nearly all of her sprint PB's while she was training to qualify for the 2008 Olympic Trials as a high school sophomore. I wish you would stop saying that she doesn't. And, if you're not going to stop then please define for me the level that you consider "world class". If it's sub-50 then she has enough speed.

26mi235 wrote:It seems that the question is not: "Which one will she be better at?"; but "Which one is she more likely to be World Class in?"

Excellent question. I don't know. It could be either, but to systematically not consider the shorter event given her training history I think is short-sighted.

Lastly if speed is what makes you move up then shouldn't we say that Irina Privalova should have been WR holder? Her PB's: 10.77, 21.87, 49.89, 2:09.40...53.02 - Olympic Champion!
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:32 pm

This is almost the first time that 400h has entered this post. As far as I know, she has never run hurdles. It is an event that is good for someone with good speed but a bit more 800 strength than the flat 400, or at least that is a common perception.

Clearly Oregon is a school that can coach both good 400 runners (and other sprinters) as well as good middle distance runners. I am pretty sure that they will figure it out and are probably ahead of us in looking at the details of what they see daily in training to go with what we see occasionally in races.

Does anyone know if her season is 'done' or is she doing USATF or is she still eligible for Juniors?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:11 pm

Privalova's 53.02 is darn close to a WR. Think she may have set an Indoor Record?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:53 pm

Please remember that Laura was part of USA's 4 x400 relay team at the World Junior Championships in 2010.
26mi235, here is your post following that race:

Re: World Junior Championships - Sunday
by 26mi235 » 25 Jul 2010 21:54

Quote -
tc wrote:
"Unofficial" splits for US relay teams:
Mance 46.7, Nolan 45.5, Verburg 46.6, Berry 46.0
Dixon 54.4, Smith 52.3, Roesler 52.2, George 52.3
- Unquote

USATF story has these splits:
After a relatively sub-par qualifying run, the women's 4x400 relay put together a superb final to beat favored Jamaica convincingly. The team of Texas prep Diamond Dixon (54.3), Stacey-Ann Smith (52.1) of Texas, North Dakota high schooler Laura Roesler (52.3) and Regina George (52.5) of Arkansas zipped to a 3:31.20, the fastest junior time in the world this year.
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So there Laura was - with the best 400m juniors in the US, some of them in college, and running as fast as any of them.
But somehow you still believe that she isn't good enough to be a full-fledged 400m.
I wonder why?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:56 pm

I think that she has a better chance of being world class in the 800 even if her 'expected value' is higher in the 400 -- there is a difference in those two objective functions.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:37 am

And yet, she has improved far more dramatically in the 400 than in the 800:

55.76 ('08)
55.10 ('09)
53.25/52.2r ('10)
?/51.45r ('11)
Almost a 7% improvement over 3 years, assuming that 55.76 converts to a 55.1 relay leg.

2:03.08 ('08)
2:06.20 ('09)
2:04.34 ('10)
2:03.12? ('11)
No improvement. QED.

Need I say any more as to why some of us are still convinced that her path to a faster 800 is by way of a faster 400?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:45 am

26mi235 wrote:I think that she has a better chance of being world class in the 800 even if her 'expected value' is higher in the 400 -- there is a difference in those two objective functions.

Actually, the more I'm reminded of her high school exploits and her WJr performance the more convinced I am that she's "LESS than 800m: 400h/400/200/100" than she is "800+". Jearl Miles-Clark, Ana Quirot, Countless Russians ALL were World Class 400m runners BEFORE they were World Class 800 m runners. So, I don't agree with your expected value theory (not saying that you're not right, just saying that what I see doesn't lend itself to your conclusions).

As I said in December '09, if she had stopped with the mid-distance stuff after her sophomore year in high school and concentrated on the sprints - with a VERY GOOD track coach - she possibly could have been a sub-11.50/23.50 high school senior - which would have made her faster than Carmelita Jeter was in high school. It would have made her faster in high school than nearly EVERY US woman sprinter that has ever medalled at the Worlds/Olympics

26, what bothers me and Jacksf is that Roesler is an incredible talent and her outsized abilities would definitely make it more difficult to understand what her "best/better" event might be by the most experienced of coaches (think Bolt the 200m runner being pushed towards the 400m BEFORE he forced his coach to consider the 100 and changed EVERYONE's view on sprinting and the 100m). But, there is an obsession among coaches/parents and some "knowledgeable" TFN posters to push fast white kids to be "faster" mid-distance runners - as if sprinting can't even be considered, even when they're FASTER than the "sprinters" (or in Bolt's case, the short people). There, I said it.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:00 am

7-sided wrote:For "informational purposes". Jearl miles-clark career
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html

400
49.90 - 3rd '97 WC
50.00 - 3rd '95 WC
49.82 - 1st '93 WC
50.50 - 5th '91 WC
49.55 - 5th '96 Oly

800
6th place in Athens 1:57.27
4th place in Seville 1:57.40


You coached Jearl?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:33 am

gm wrote:
7-sided wrote:For "informational purposes". Jearl miles-clark career
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html

400
49.90 - 3rd '97 WC
50.00 - 3rd '95 WC
49.82 - 1st '93 WC
50.50 - 5th '91 WC
49.55 - 5th '96 Oly

800
6th place in Athens 1:57.27
4th place in Seville 1:57.40


You coached Jearl?

Would that really matter to you? :roll:
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Daisy » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:38 am

az2004 wrote:i doubt she's got great 200 speed like many 400 do

What about Juantorena, did he have/need speed? (not rhetorical)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:42 am

7, I am just trying to figure out where you're coming from with your assertions.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:47 am

gm wrote:7, I am just trying to figure out where you're coming from with your assertions.

and, I'm wondering how you would be qualified to judge my assertions. How about this: you make your best case based upon any evidence you can provide and I'll make my best case (which I think I have)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:17 am

7-sided wrote:
26mi235 wrote:I think that she has a better chance of being world class in the 800 even if her 'expected value' is higher in the 400 -- there is a difference in those two objective functions.

Actually, the more I'm reminded of her high school exploits and her WJr performance the more convinced I am that she's "LESS than 800m: 400h/400/200/100" than she is "800+". Jearl Miles-Clark, Ana Quirot, Countless Russians ALL were World Class 400m runners BEFORE they were World Class 800 m runners. So, I don't agree with your expected value theory (not saying that you're not right, just saying that what I see doesn't lend itself to your conclusions).

As I said in December '09, if she had stopped with the mid-distance stuff after her sophomore year in high school and concentrated on the sprints - with a VERY GOOD track coach - she possibly could have been a sub-11.50/23.50 high school senior - which would have made her faster than Carmelita Jeter was in high school. It would have made her faster in high school than nearly EVERY US woman sprinter that has ever medalled at the Worlds/Olympics

26, what bothers me and Jacksf is that Roesler is an incredible talent and her outsized abilities would definitely make it more difficult to understand what her "best/better" event might be by the most experienced of coaches (think Bolt the 200m runner being pushed towards the 400m BEFORE he forced his coach to consider the 100 and changed EVERYONE's view on sprinting and the 100m). But, there is an obsession among coaches/parents and some "knowledgeable" TFN posters to push fast white kids to be "faster" mid-distance runners - as if sprinting can't even be considered, even when they're FASTER than the "sprinters" (or in Bolt's case, the short people). There, I said it.

DAMN!! I forgot all about Ana Quirot. Like Jearl, she is another example of a 400m runner who became a better 800 runner as her 400 performances improved. With Laura improving her 400 times by more than 3 seconds over 3 years, while standing still in the 800, she is definitely on the trajectory of Quirot and Miles-Clark.

And I must say, I'm astonished that no one has learned anything from watching Jeremy Wariner (20.19/43.45) and Christophe Lemaître (9.96/20.16). If either of them can defy expectations in an event no one expected them to do well, why not Laura Roesler? If she were Russian, we probably would not be having this discussion about whether she belongs in the 400/800 or the 800/1,500. I wonder why...
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:41 am

Well Laura Roesler continues to stagnate in the 800m.
I see she ran 2:10.62 in the heats of the NCAA indoor championships, and didn't make the finals.

Meanwhile, she had the fastest relay split (53.02) for Oregon's relay team in the finals of the 4x400 the next day. And that time comes while she is training as an 800m runner.

If the Oregon coaches could just overlook the fact that she's white, and move her down to the 400m, they might have a Jeremy Lin on their hands.

Meanwhile no news about California HS sprint and LJ champ, Jenna Prandini.
But rumor has it that the Oregon coaches think a white girl with her incredible speed and jumping ability will make a great Pole Vaulter ;p
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:09 am

Interesting article on Fawn Dorr. It shows how a distance runner became a sprinter. http://spikesandheels.com/pro-focus-fawn-dorr

A few take aways...
Back in the day, I dreamed of being the best woman miler. in high school I read Allen Webb’s Sub 4min Mile book, competed in State championships numerous times in the 1500m, steeple and cross country. Those were the years I fell in love with running, but I had a series of very serious head injuries in high school and started having seizures when I ran long distances. The longer the distance, the worse the seizure. I was an OK hurdler, because of steeple, so my high school coach Nancy Bennett decided to start trying me in the 400hurdles and I started having fewer seizures


My junior year at indoor NCAA’s (National Collegiate Athletic Association) I raced the 400 and got dead last. My senior year I ended up getting 4th with a 52.5.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:14 pm

That's a very interesting and unusual story. It took a serious medical condition to move a white girl down to the sprints! And yet, she was quite successful.
Meanwhile, Laura who is a natural sprinter, continues to be moved further away from the sprints.
At the Oregon preview meet last week, the coaches had her run the 1600m. Her time - 4:41.62.

I think it's telling that Laura's best 800m time is STILL from high school, when she was basically a sprinter.
What the Oregon coaches think is that she is a middle distance runner with good speed. But in fact, she is a sprinter with good endurance. There's a big difference there.
Unfortunately, Oregon coaches are unable to recognize the difference because of Laura's skin color.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:26 pm

oregontf@uoregon.edu

Send them an e-mail and tell them they are wrong. Obviously they are not reading this message board since you have posted the same complaint many times.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:16 pm

Jacksf wrote:....
Unfortunately, Oregon coaches are unable to recognize the difference because of Laura's skin color.


If you have personal knowledge of this, please tell us more. If you're just speculating, this is not a charge you should be leveling and you should move away from this topic with all possible speed.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:27 am

It is common on LetsRun to have people continually carping about how obvious it is that the athlete and the coach are so clueless and do not know such things as: 1) what is the right event for the athlete; 2) what is the right racing strategy (usually, that they should be front-running the race; and 3) training is screwed up.

Of course, virtually none of these posters have the depth of experience or expertise --- funny that they are not coaching top-level athletes (not).
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:06 am

jacksf could have been a bit more diplomatic in his language, as inartful as it was, and it might not fully apply to Roessler, but going through this entire thread and reading the comments, it would seem that Roessler is stuck - if not regressing. Is she in the right event? Who knows. Is her training wrong (assuming she's in the right event)? Hard to doubt Lanana, he's worked wonders with many. Is her event choice race based? Could be, but that would have to do more with her upbringing and the events that were chosen for her in high school - her mother was her coach- than with UO (the UO sprint coach is African American, not that blacks are not or can not suffer the same racial bias' of everyone else).

However, she has enough speed to be a collegiate sprinter at 400m and she has enough speed -which can also be developed - to run at an elite level, too; the fact that she has been able to split 51's off of distance training is something close to remarkable. What is strange is that she hasn't progressed over 800m. I'm sure it's a mystery to her and her coaches but I just don't get where some of you feel that she is a 5K/10K woman.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:31 pm

Jacksf wrote:What the Oregon coaches think is that she is a middle distance runner with good speed. But in fact, she is a sprinter with good endurance. There's a big difference there.
Unfortunately, Oregon coaches are unable to recognize the difference because of Laura's skin color.

How do you know the coaches haven't been trying to persuade her to move down to the sprints, but she still believes that she can be a middle distance runner? The college coaches I know won't outright demand that an athlete change events when they believe that the athlete has more potential in another event. They will suggest and cajole, but the final decision is made by the athlete.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Pego » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:52 pm

I'll repeat my old mantra. Few child prodigies make it big among adults. It is far from a sure thing. Sad, but true.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:03 pm

SInce we are speculating about Roesler's career progressions with great interest, but absent much detail (perhaps most of us have it memorized, but I know I don't), here is some data, at least to remind us of what she's done so far in one of her primary events :

Progression at 800m
8th gr/HS
2006 2:11.62
2007 2:07.83 (I also recall a 2:07.59 being reported that year)
2008 2:03.08 (07 June)
2009 2:06.2
2010 2:04.34 (21 July)
collegiate
2011 2:03.12 (27 May) [indoor 2:04.93]
2012 ------------- [indoor 2:05.07]

I don't have dates for the 06, 07, and 09 times, but I'm reasonably certain they were run in late May. Thus, it seems to me to be premature to say that she is regressing, or stuck. I think this depends on what progression one thinks an athlete should have. Last year, as a freshman at Oregon, she came within .04 of her HS best (which, as it was not run in her senior year, I supposed could be construed as stagnating in HS -- I don't take it as that). Her outdoor progression isn't a pattern of each year faster than the previous. I don't know how common that is -- I don't really expect one to progress like that. I'll be interested to see what she does this spring. Her indoor times this year were slightly slower, but not far off 2011. What to make of that? I don't know -- hard to do much with two data points in her indoor record, but I don't take that at this point as indicative of what she'll do outdoors.

And what of the 1500m time at the Oregon Preview, as was noted above? A few days ago she ran 4:41.69 at the Oregon Preview. In that race she finished first in the second section. But it's also worth noting that last year, she also ran the 1500 at the Oregon Preview. Note that it was the only 1500 she ran all last season, where she ran 4:42.29 (finishing 4th in the second section). Thus, she's slightly faster at 1500m this year. What to make of that? Nothing, for me. It's two data points. However, at this point, I don't take her participation in the 1500 at the Oregon Preview to be evidence that anyone is moving her up in distance beyond this one race. Of course, I don't know this -- none of us does. But as of now, this looks like the same competition pattern she fulfilled last year, when she continued to compete at 400/800 through the outdoor season.

She does seem to have great potential at 400/800. I don't have any opinion about which of those events she will ultimately excel at. In reviewing this thread, I see one post that suggested 5k/10k for her, so that seems not a big part of the discussion as of now. A couple of us (gh and me) suggested that long term she might excel at 1500. But of course -- for me, at least, that's speculation. Right now, she seems to be where she belongs, both in distances and as for the team she's participating with. But that's just my opinion.

Roesler is an interesting athlete with an interesting history, and thus a good topic for discussion. I hope this can continue without insult among the posters. (But that's just my opinion, too, not being very good at the insult dimension of some discussions. :) )
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby kuha » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:26 pm

I don't have any stats here in front of me, but was fascinated by her HS performances. It's my memory that she was state X-C champ at least once or twice, and also won state titles at from the 100 to the 800 (or was it 200 to 800?). Granted, the quality of this range was skewed by the very small pool of compeition, but--still--this is/was exceptional and she was very obviously a top national talent at the 800. I have no idea what the overall story is, but wonder if its not something very simple--like physically maturing and gaining 15 pounds...or something like that....?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:26 pm

To me, the bottom line on Roesler is simple: she was good enough as a high schooler to make the OT in the 800; she wasn't remotely on the radar in the 400. Why would anybody think of her as a sprinter of any sort?

The fact that she has now run a 51.45 anchor on a 4x4 tells me only one thing: her training is being done absolutely perfectly, because if she's to be a figure on the national/world stage in the 800, she has to have that kind of speed.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby mcgato » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:45 pm

It was my impression that she put a lot into her 2008 season with a thought of competing in the Olympic trials. After that year, she backed off of the training a bit fearing burn out. Still ran well, and has transitioned fairly well to college. I think that things are going in the right direction for her. I'll be patient and see what the rest of this year brings.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:56 pm

gh wrote:To me, the bottom line on Roesler is simple: she was good enough as a high schooler to make the OT in the 800; she wasn't remotely on the radar in the 400. Why would anybody think of her as a sprinter of any sort?

Unless she's ever trained like a quartermiler, the fact that she wasn't on the 400 radar is meaningless. Deedee Trotter wasn't on the 400 radar coming out of high school either, but that's because her commitment was to the short sprints until the coaches at Tennessee finally convinced her to move up to the 400 her junior year.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:09 pm

as the Oregon pressbook cites her prep career << Dominated the North Dakota prep running scene for Fargo South High School. Won six straight state titles at 400 meters, five straight at 200 and 800 meters, four at 100 meters and also claimed a pair of cross country titles.>>

Setting aside the lack of competition in that low-population state, the fact that she was able to win at everything from 100 through cross country suggests to me that her training (and like everybody else here, I'm talking through my hat if I say actually know anyhting about the specifics of how she trained then or now) was more "general" than anything else and her natural abilities were shining through, making it clear that the 800 is her event.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:43 pm

Which remains to be seen. A low-to-mid-50 in a relay will surely be the game-changer in this discussion and probably for Laura as well. I'll bet my horse money on it! 8-)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:05 pm

for me, a mid/low relay 50 means Roesler might have an outside chance at making the OT 400 final, whereas it almost guarantees (casting tactical flaws aside for the moment) an 800 spot.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:48 pm

With Jearl Miles-Clark (49.40/1:56.40) as her pro coach, perhaps?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:37 pm

gh wrote:To me, the bottom line on Roesler is simple: she was good enough as a high schooler to make the OT in the 800; she wasn't remotely on the radar in the 400. Why would anybody think of her as a sprinter of any sort?

Not true.
In 2010 at World Junior Championships, she ran on the gold medal 4x400 relay team as a high schooler.
"The team of Texas prep Diamond Dixon (54.3), Stacey-Ann Smith (52.1) of Texas, North Dakota high schooler Laura Roesler (52.3) and Regina George (52.5) of Arkansas zipped to a 3:31.20, the fastest junior time in the world this year."

And Laura's split was as good as any of her teammates, some of them collegians.

Regarding her training, if her high school training was 'general', and her university training is specific for the 800m, and yet her best 800m time is from almost 4 yrs ago as a high schooler; then I would certainly conclude that the 800m is NOT her best event.

One last point - as I've said on countless different threads - 400m speed does not make an 800m runner.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Look at the post above yours.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:19 pm

400m speed does not necessarily/usually translate to 800m speed.
We've been over this so many times. There are a few exceptions, but really just a few.
Let's not re-hash that.

Laura probably runs the 400m faster than any other collegiate 800m runner in the country.
But she is not even the fastest 800m at Oregon, let alone the country! And she is not getting faster at the 800m even though her 400m speed is improving.
On the other hand, she seems to be the fastest 400m runner at Oregon, even though she is training for the 800m!
See how backwards that is!?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby duckedup » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:33 pm

^i lean to his side.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:03 am

Wow, I don't think that I've ever disagreed with gh more.
gh wrote: the fact that she was able to win at everything from 100 through cross country suggests to me that her training (and like everybody else here, I'm talking through my hat if I say actually know anyhting about the specifics of how she trained then or now) was more "general" than anything else and her natural abilities were shining through, making it clear that the 800 is her event.


In the article it SPECIFICALLY states that she was trying to qualify for the trials at 800m; the sprinting was only her speedwork (from what I could gather, which like you, is because I can't possibly know more). Did you even read the training that she did? It was anything but general; it wasn't even unconventional. What it wasn't was sprint work. And, sprinting is NOT developed by running distance. That is the part that gh and all the other "next Mary Decker" types keep conveniently dismissing: she was being trained to be the next Mary Decker.

gh wrote:for me, a mid/low relay 50 means Roesler might have an outside chance at making the OT 400 final, whereas it almost guarantees (casting tactical flaws aside for the moment) an 800 spot.


Thoughout this thread examples have been given of "sprinters" who had less than Roessler like speed at 16, in high school, and in some cases in college; yet, they made US Teams, or made global finals, and in at least one case won a global championships. But, for Roessler, if she were to embark on the sprint path she only has a chance at an OT final? Why? And if her speed guarantees an 800 spot then how come she didn't make the NCAA finals?
gh wrote:... because if she's to be a figure on the national/world stage in the 800, she has to have that kind of speed.

But, what you miss, again, is THAT kind of speed -the speed she exibited as a SOPHOMORE in high school- is the SAME kind of speed that sprinters use to become international sprint stars!! And, not because she won a state title in North Dakota; her times would have made her a top 16 year old nearly anywhere in the world, including Jamaica. In fact, she was as fast as the defending Olympic champion, Fraser-Pryce, at 16, and faster than Kaleise Spencer.

I have no idea if she's an 800m runner; she could be, but it's nearly criminal to say that an 11.9/53.25 sprinter from North Dakota couldn't have been a top 400m prospect.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:07 am

Mary Decker? When did her name jump into the conversation? You convince me of nothing by putting words in my mouth.

There's no comparing the two. And if I were paint them as alike, I'd be projecting Roesler as a future 5K star, a pure distance runner.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:04 am

gh wrote:Mary Decker? When did her name jump into the conversation? You convince me of nothing by putting words in my mouth.

gh, I didn't put words in your mouth. You managed to spit these gems out all by yourself on the first page of this split thread...
gh wrote:If she can't make the step up to the mile in Eugene, unlikely she'll do it anywhere. But she does have the Decker-like wheels to move on up to international class.

She is also compared to Mary Decker in the following article that also addresses her training. http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=13711
gh wrote:...There's no comparing the two. And if I were paint them as alike, I'd be projecting Roesler as a future 5K star, a pure distance runner.

OK, throwing aside the fact that you already found SOME similarity, now you say that she is a PURE distance runner? :shock: How many pure distance runners exhibit 11.9/53.25/52r speed as sophomore's in high school, gh? And, how many of them are running the 5k now? I'm going to ignore the entire energy systems for training these vastly different events and the physiology...5k? Your knowledge database is far deeper than mine so please, show me another athlete who fits this criteria why you would even include her. There must be a predecessor.

failing that, here are a list of other pure distance runners, from this thread (which some of you conveniently omit from your posts), who Roessler was either faster than or as fast as in high school or at the age of 16.

Jearl Miles, Monica Hargrove, Mary Wineberg, Jana Rawlinson-Pittman AUS, Monique Hennagan, Alison Peter ISV, Sheniqua Furguson BAH, Jura Levy JAM, Jeneba Tarmoh, Kaleise Spencer JAM, Shelly-Ann Frase JAM

please look at the 2004 Jamaica girls champs results below from their equivalent sophomore, junior and senior class results (3,2,1) and tell me which one is the pure distance runner.

Class 3 (Sophomore)
1 Wilkins, Bobbygaye Holmwood Technical 55.57 9 (ran on JAM 4x4)
2 Cole, Shakeeri EDA 56.15 7
3 Griffiths, Shelleen Vere Technical High 56.21 6
4 McDERMOT, Latoya St. Andrew High 56.23 5
5 Reid, Kenesha Pemboke Hall High 57.07 4
6 Williams, Nadishe Vere Technical High 58.12 3
7 Blair, Taneisha Holmwood Technical 58.56 2
8 Haye, Yanique St.Jago High 1:01.26 1

Class 2 (Juniors)
1 Sutherland, Sonita Holmwood Technical 52.41M 9
2 Pinnock, Sherene EDA 53.60 7
3 Stewart, Sharnetter Vere Technical High 53.73 6
4 Bolt, Jeraine Holmwood Technical 55.15 5
5 Spencer, Kaliese Mannings High 55.92 4 (Daegu 4th)
6 Simpson, Stephanie Manchester High 56.86 3
7 Sutherland, Andrea EDA 56.97 2
8 Wilson, Crystal Queens High School 58.40 1

Class 1 (Seniors)
1 McLAUGHLIN, Anneisha Holmwood Technical 52.80 9
2 Wisdom, Maris Vere Technical High 53.31 7
3 Williams, Shericka St.Elizabeth Tech. 53.52 6
4 Cole, Nyoka Holmwood Technical 53.95 5
5 Anderson, Nickesha HERB 54.54 4
6 Page, Kashain St.Jago High 56.61 3
7 McKENZIE, Arusha St. Andrew High 57.25 2
8 Wilson, Nickiesha Convent OF Mercy 58.10 1 Osaka finalist
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