Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]


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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:53 am

Alrighty then, Vin and his staff are obviously blithering idiots for not realizing they have a sprint star wasting her talents in the 800. That explains why the Ducks have been so unsuccessful of late at the national level.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby az2004 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:14 am

i don't see her being sub 50 type in 400

but i do see her sub 2 at 800

800 is her distance, her 400 speed will serve her well there
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:26 am

gm wrote:Alrighty then, Vin and his staff are obviously blithering idiots for not realizing they have a sprint star wasting her talents in the 800. That explains why the Ducks have been so unsuccessful of late at the national level.

Just because you have an incredibly talented athlete in AN event doesn't necessarily mean that they're in the CORRECT event. It's also much harder to determine with more talented athletes. It could easily be argued that Eaton could be an 8.80+ long jumper and win for the next 10 years but he's so incredibly talented in the multis that it doesn't make sense for him to move. IF Roessler were to run 50.50 she would EASILY be a candidate for every 400/4x4 WC/OLY team for the next decade and quite possibly bring home a medal!!! She ran 2:02 3 years ago, if she ran 1:58.00 in the next 6 years, there's barely a guarantee that she would make a USA team and less of a chance at a medal. If medals are an indication of how good you are in your event and she has a better chance of medalling at the lesser distance, then she's better at the lesser distance. It's really quite simple. Vin, or his staff, are not idiots but she's also just a freshman, he's just maximizing her preference - she is in that tweenerville where she COULD be an 800m runner. But to insist that an 11.9/24.0 sophomore is automatically 800+ is stupid. IDIOCY is thinking that she would be better at an even longer distance. Oh, that's right, who said that again?

gm wrote:Now THAT I can agree with, gh. Her future is probably at the longer distance.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Powell » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:31 am

az2004 wrote:i don't see her being sub 50 type in 400

but i do see her sub 2 at 800


But 2 minutes and 50 secs aren't equivalent benchmarks. 2:00.00 isn't even the A standard, while 50.00 will easily make the Olympic final, and may not be too far away from a medal.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:33 am

Powell wrote:
az2004 wrote:i don't see her being sub 50 type in 400

but i do see her sub 2 at 800


But 2 minutes and 50 secs aren't equivalent benchmarks. 2:00.00 isn't even the A standard, while 50.00 will easily make the Olympic final, and may not be too far away from a medal.

EXACTLY!! I'm shocked that veteran posters are not aware of the difference between the two events/times.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:40 am

7, I will yield to your vast coaching experience on this one.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:44 am

gm wrote:7, I will yield to your vast coaching experience on this one.

no need. I just realized that you were: "willfully ignorant & hopefully delusional" :?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:57 am

Yup, got me there.
Just for informational purposes, how long HAVE you been coaching?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby az2004 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:12 am

you are correct about 2 minutes and 50

but i see DEPTH of 400 being far better than the 800

where is she in the pecking order of both events

i doubt she's got great 200 speed like many 400 do

DIAMOND DIXON the frosh from kansas who won the big-12 is see having a brighter future at 400


ah, she beat beard in the open 400 and what did beard do to her anchor leg

this speaks more about beard than anything though..

felix, mccrory, beard, just to start naming a few...look at the iaaf lisys for the rest of the americans

800 has fewer , what i consider dangerous 800 women, roesler, has fewer to get faster tahn at 800 than 400

add in oregon getting the gierl from benjamin cardoza who has major ups at 4
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby TxHottrack » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:13 am

az2004 wrote:i don't see her being sub 50 type in 400

but i do see her sub 2 at 800

800 is her distance, her 400 speed will serve her well there




I believe Laura will sub 2 in the 800 by her junior or senior year. This young lady has extreme talent on the track. But,I don't see her running a sub 50 in the 400. She reminds me a lot of Phoebe Wright. Phoebe can run a killer 400 on the 4x400 as well.
Last edited by TxHottrack on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:17 am

For "informational purposes". Jearl miles-clark career
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html

400
49.90 - 3rd '97 WC
50.00 - 3rd '95 WC
49.82 - 1st '93 WC
50.50 - 5th '91 WC
49.55 - 5th '96 Oly

800
6th place in Athens 1:57.27
4th place in Seville 1:57.40
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:36 am

What she might be able to do in four or five years does not need to dictate what she does in the next several and she is not going to be knocking off the likes of Beard from the relay. Now compare 49.13 with 51.45 and consider that she HAS been training as a sprinter for years (6 straight titles at 400, 5 at 200, 11.90 PR). She is not going to make sudden huge gains from going down in distance. In fact, I would suspect that the pure speed end is not going to get much faster but the endurance end will benefit from college-level training, especially once she has adjusted to the higher level.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby az2004 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:52 am

i agree fully with 26m265...

looking at hs 800 types now, ajee wilson, weisenbach, even mary cain the phenom frosh miler has 2;06 800, with 55 400 meter speed..

there's some newer blood to look forward to...

usa just cranks out 400 talent year after year, locally we've got a 12 year old running 56, who would have placed in the state meet, and i'm sure there's many more around the nation

but 800 isn't loaded like the 400 has been historically
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:24 am

26mi235 wrote:What she might be able to do in four or five years does not need to dictate what she does in the next several and she is not going to be knocking off the likes of Beard from the relay. Now compare 49.13 with 51.45 and consider that she HAS been training as a sprinter for years (6 straight titles at 400, 5 at 200, 11.90 PR). She is not going to make sudden huge gains from going down in distance. In fact, I would suspect that the pure speed end is not going to get much faster but the endurance end will benefit from college-level training, especially once she has adjusted to the higher level.

1. If splitting 49.13 was a requirement for remaining in the sprint ranks it would have a group of one. 51.45 was the "3rd" best of the day (that we know), should all of the women who ran slower than LR now give up the sprints? Roesler's training, given that she was an NCAA Q in the 800 and ran 3:42 is clearly that of a mid-distance runner BUT she still ran 51.45!
2. She has NOT been training as a sprinter for 6 years; her mother is a distance runner and is/was/helped coach her, iirc. They trained her to be the next Mary Decker (MD was even named in an old article I read) and that included road races and XC; she just happened to be the fastest person in the state as well. But she was NOT trained as a sprinter; Kelly Schueller was/is trained as a sprinter, iirc.
3. What she does in the next several v next 5-6 years? Hmmm. right now we have an OT finalist at 800m not making the NCAA final for 800m. Talk tactics, whatever but she's probably as good of a 400m runner IF she trained for it. She ran 54.xx earlier in the season and 51.45r. If we give her a whole second she runs 52.50. I think that makes the final of the 400m (52.71 was the last place).
4. Disagree about what gains she COULD make. The gains might be small but also given the fact that she has NEVER TRAINED AS A SPRINTER BEFORE we don't know how good she could be.

FOUND IT! These are not sprinting workouts.
http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=13711
Laura’s coach, Lisa Svalson, a Fargo South High School aluma who was in turn coached by Karen Roelser, Laura’s mom, keeps mileage low, variety high. “Laura’s just a kid. We try a lot of events, relays and sprints, to keep things fresh.” At the end of the 2007 track season, Lisa showed Laura the B standard for the Olympic Trials 800m. The 9th grader giggled and said she thought she could probably do that. Running at the Trials as Team NoDak, Laura ran a strong 2:04.03 to advance from the quarter finals of the 800, and a 2:06.82, placing twelfth, in the semi finals. She talked to us from Eugene…


How many miles/week do you run in the fall? And in the spring?
I’m not quite sure of my mileage. I just usually go out and do what my coach tells us. [Coach Svalson: The girls usually go out for a 5-6 mile run once or twice a week, one day in the pool, one day of speed and one of intervals. We tried to do back-to-back hard days to prepare for the Trials.]

Do you run in the summer and winter? And how do you deal with those Fargo winters?
After my summer meets I take a break and then start cross country training. In the winter, I usually play basketball. Our track season starts at the end of February. It’s hard running in Fargo because the sidewalks and streets are very icy and snowy. We just have to be very careful and hope that spring is coming (soon)!
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:47 am

7-sided wrote:51.45 was the "3rd" best of the day (that we know),
I have not seen the marks for the first two runners, although gh indicated that they have been calculated/developed.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:23 am

I've heard our Jamaican posters write about this young woman often and I don't know enough about her native footspeed when she was 16 to make a comparison to Roesler; however, I can show you that she has gone from firmly being an 800m runner to one of the best sprinters in the world.

In 2004 Kaliese Spencer JAM won the Class 2 high school champs (I think class 2 is "junior"). She was almost 17. In 2005 she was 6th in Class 1 (I think "senior")
2004 - 1 Spencer, Kaliese Mannings High 2:12.23
2005 - 6 880 Spencer, Kal 87 MG 2:14.79

Here are Kaliese Spencers current PB's (50.55, 53.33, 2:05.84). Obviously, she has one of the world's best sprint coaches in Stephen Francis of MVP (JAM), but it shows that speed can be developed. If I had to guess: she wasn't running the 800m because she was sub-12 in high school.

FYI, below are the results of the 2004 Class 2 100m. quite a few 12's from, as our Jamaican posters would point out, the meet "where champions are born" :wink:

http://www.cfpitiming.com/2004%20Outdoo ... /index.htm
1 Fraser, Shelley-Ann Wolmers' Girls 11.73 1.0 9
2 Smith, Kimberly EDA 11.82 1.0 7
3 Spence, Inderia Vere Technical High 11.96 1.0 6
4 Wright, Shana-Kay Vere Technical High 11.98 1.0 5
5 Le-Roy, Anastacia Holmwood Technical 12.05 1.0 4
6 Patterson, Nikoda St.Jago High 12.07 1.0 3
7 Mason, Kaydene St.Jago High 12.08 1.0 2
8 Sanderson, Latoya EDA 12.16 1.0 1
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:57 am

26mi235 wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:It all depends on how fast you are trotting when you receive the stick and cross the middle of the exchange zone (the finish line). If you are slow coming out of that zone, it becomes quite conceivable that your takeoff from the blocks of an open 400 could be just as fast or even faster. That is why I don't give much credence to the .7-second addition or subtraction rule-of-thumb when it comes to an open 400 or 400 relay split. Same with the 800.


This is silly; if you laze around you might be slow; duh. No reaction time, rolling start, NEVER slower.

But how much is that rolling start worth? I'm still not sold on the .7-second benchmark, unless T&FN considered the incentive one has for chasing down a competitor or being chased by a competitor, almost always in the 1st lane, which to many is a disadvantage if it were an open event, rather than a relay.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby kevinsdad » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:02 am

No one in this thread has offered any plausible reason for why Roesler was a more accomplished 800 runner as a high school sophomore, three years ago, even though she has improved her 400 speed substantially since then. I saw her run sunday for the first time, and she looked to me rather muscular and heavy for a middle distance runner. Judging by pictures of her as a high schooler, I'd say she's gained a lot of weight since 2008. If so, maybe this extra weight is retarding her advancement in the 800. I find it otherwise inconceivable that her improved 400 ability has not translated into better 800 performances.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby az2004 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:56 am

ever see channelle price...

that's one tank there..

whatever your dna says, that's what you're likely to become..

mom and pop shaper ones live in many ways

800 and 4x4 is enough i think
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:32 pm

What is Chanelle's 400 PR?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:37 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:What is Chanelle's 400 PR?


http://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/2258728.html

56.52
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:05 pm

7-sided wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:What is Chanelle's 400 PR?


http://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/2258728.html

56.52

Which explains why she has yet to crack her 800 PR from HS; or did she, and I missed it somewhere while reading through the magazines? Almost a paradox when you consider how much-improved Laura has been in the 400, while her 800 PR stands still 3 years running.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby KevinM » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:51 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
7-sided wrote:
CookyMonzta wrote:What is Chanelle's 400 PR?


http://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/2258728.html

56.52

Which explains why she has yet to crack her 800 PR from HS; or did she, and I missed it somewhere while reading through the magazines? Almost a paradox when you consider how much-improved Laura has been in the 400, while her 800 PR stands still 3 years running.


I don't see it as unusual - while it's not uncommon for someone to be able to cross over from 400 to 800, that doesn't mean that their training is necessarily complimentary.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:20 pm

Here are the results from the Pac 10 Championships in the 400m & 800m
1 Jasmine Chaney SR Arizona State 52.23
2 Joy Eaton SR UCLA 52.61
3 Chizoba Okodogbe FR Oregon 52.71
4 Ashlea McLaughlin SR UCLA 52.86
5 Shawna Fermin SO Washington St. 53.22
6 Shapri Romero FR Arizona 53.62
7 Keia Pinnick SO Arizona State 54.03
8 Dominique' Maloy SR Arizona State 54.67


1 Anna Layman SR Washington St. 2:03.48
2 Christina Rodgers SR Arizona 2:03.52
3 Laura Roesler FR Oregon 2:04.24
4 Justine Fedronic SO Stanford 2:06.53
5 Anne Kesselring SO Oregon 2:07.41
6 Joy O'Hare SO Stanford 2:08.04
7 Deanna Sullivan SR Arizona 2:08.90
8 Courtney Zalud SO Washington St. 2:11.14
9 Phyllis Francis FR Oregon 2:12.91

It looks to me that Laura could be scoring more points for Oregon in the 400m where they are weaker, than the 800m where they are stronger.
Unfortunately, I could not find the splits from the 4 x 400 relay, where she ran anchor.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:25 pm

She ran one 51.45 while hoping against hope in the team battle. Do you think that is a standard representation of what she will run as a 400 gal? Also, you have to realize that races at 800 and above are tactical and she has rarely raced runners in a tactical situation before. Did that race go out in 28 or 33?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:35 pm

26mi235 wrote:She ran one 51.45 while hoping against hope in the team battle. Do you think that is a standard representation of what she will run as a 400 gal? Also, you have to realize that races at 800 and above are tactical and she has rarely raced runners in a tactical situation before. Did that race go out in 28 or 33?


51.45 is a representation of very good speed. Of which she has more of than many other 400m, and most 800m.
That speed is the reason that you think she can do so well in the 800m.
With that kind of speed, tactics shouldn't matter. She should be able to go with the pace and run everyone down on the final straightaway. Isn't that the logic of why you and the others think she should be an 800m runner?
But, it isn't working out that way - because the 800m is not a speed race. It is not a sprint. Speed is a part of it, but not the main part of it. Endurance is.
LR might have the speed needed for the 800m, but perhaps not enough endurance to improve significantly.
If speed is her best asset, then she should be using it in a speed event - the 400m.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:15 am

OK, a question. A couple of years ago she almost made the Finals at the Trials in the 800. I would guess that she was not close to making the finals in the 400 if she had done that event instead. Why would she be getting better at the 400 rather than the 800. Lonewolf indicated that she looked bigger and had put on more weight (and muscle). That could be a reason. What does this bode for the future; As she gets stronger to carry that weight will she get better at the 400 faster than at the 800?

It was mentioned that an 800 meter runner with speed does not need tactics to get to the Final and any failure in that department is an indication that they are not best placed in the 800. Now, I think that there are several 800 runners with great speed that have failed to advance, including the the WR guy and Borzo maybe also had that problem and the Vessey as well). Now I agree that this is only one aspect and Jack makes a decent case for the 400 question.

Given that she 'crosses' the 400/800 barrier better than most athletes (especially those coming from the sprint side) it seems like it is not a case of 400 or 800, neither she nor Vin need to make an irreversible decision at this point.

To me it seems more likely that her good speed is enough to be an asset at becoming world-class in the 800 while she does not have the speed to be world class in the 400. Put another way, at the level of a freshman it is really a longshot to make it as a world-class athlete. It seems that the question is not: "Which one will she be better at?"; but "Which one is she more likely to be World Class in?"
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:59 am

This is purely anecdotal, so please take it with a grain of salt...but I've noticed that it is not that uncommon for a young girl to be good from 100m to 800m even up to 1500 - until about age 16 or so. You constantly see it in YOUTH track (re: Reynolds, Rogers). Also, on the east coast, where you may have schools that don't have their own track, you will find schools in MD, NJ, NY, VA where XC runners are also fairly decent high school sprinters - the coach makes all track athletes run XC; they have no choice. That said, though MOST here would certainly say that Meredith Rainey (Valmon) was an 800m runner she was ALSO a decent 400m runner (WHO DIDN'T HAVE SUB-23 SPEED), though few would have called her a 1500m runner. Matter of fact, if Rainey-Valmon had chosen to concentrate on the 400m she would have been as good at 400m as Miles-Clark, imo - eventually. Just did a quick search and Rainey won her conference meets all 4 years (53.93, 53.20, 52.76, 51.56); in her last two years she also won the 800 at the conference meet (2:08.43; 2:07.84) and ran 2nd in the 200m (24.14); and I think she won NCAA 800m in 1990. Her PB would eventually be lowered to 1:57.04. She made every US team between '91 and '99 except Barcelona and Athens.

As for Roesler, I can't say why she hasn't progressed but I did basically predict, on this messageboard, that she wouldn't improve a year and a half ago. And her 51.45r nearly confirms my reasons why: she might not be an 800m runner. She might be WR-level 400h with practice...

26mi235 wrote:To me it seems more likely that her good speed is enough to be an asset at becoming world-class in the 800 while she does not have the speed to be world class in the 400. Put another way, at the level of a freshman it is really a longshot to make it as a world-class athlete.


Another thing: I've proven through multiple post examples that she DOES (or at one point DID) have enough speed to be an elite, World Class 400m runner - especially when you consider that she ran nearly all of her sprint PB's while she was training to qualify for the 2008 Olympic Trials as a high school sophomore. I wish you would stop saying that she doesn't. And, if you're not going to stop then please define for me the level that you consider "world class". If it's sub-50 then she has enough speed.

26mi235 wrote:It seems that the question is not: "Which one will she be better at?"; but "Which one is she more likely to be World Class in?"

Excellent question. I don't know. It could be either, but to systematically not consider the shorter event given her training history I think is short-sighted.

Lastly if speed is what makes you move up then shouldn't we say that Irina Privalova should have been WR holder? Her PB's: 10.77, 21.87, 49.89, 2:09.40...53.02 - Olympic Champion!
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:32 pm

This is almost the first time that 400h has entered this post. As far as I know, she has never run hurdles. It is an event that is good for someone with good speed but a bit more 800 strength than the flat 400, or at least that is a common perception.

Clearly Oregon is a school that can coach both good 400 runners (and other sprinters) as well as good middle distance runners. I am pretty sure that they will figure it out and are probably ahead of us in looking at the details of what they see daily in training to go with what we see occasionally in races.

Does anyone know if her season is 'done' or is she doing USATF or is she still eligible for Juniors?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:11 pm

Privalova's 53.02 is darn close to a WR. Think she may have set an Indoor Record?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:53 pm

Please remember that Laura was part of USA's 4 x400 relay team at the World Junior Championships in 2010.
26mi235, here is your post following that race:

Re: World Junior Championships - Sunday
by 26mi235 » 25 Jul 2010 21:54

Quote -
tc wrote:
"Unofficial" splits for US relay teams:
Mance 46.7, Nolan 45.5, Verburg 46.6, Berry 46.0
Dixon 54.4, Smith 52.3, Roesler 52.2, George 52.3
- Unquote

USATF story has these splits:
After a relatively sub-par qualifying run, the women's 4x400 relay put together a superb final to beat favored Jamaica convincingly. The team of Texas prep Diamond Dixon (54.3), Stacey-Ann Smith (52.1) of Texas, North Dakota high schooler Laura Roesler (52.3) and Regina George (52.5) of Arkansas zipped to a 3:31.20, the fastest junior time in the world this year.
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So there Laura was - with the best 400m juniors in the US, some of them in college, and running as fast as any of them.
But somehow you still believe that she isn't good enough to be a full-fledged 400m.
I wonder why?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:56 pm

I think that she has a better chance of being world class in the 800 even if her 'expected value' is higher in the 400 -- there is a difference in those two objective functions.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:37 am

And yet, she has improved far more dramatically in the 400 than in the 800:

55.76 ('08)
55.10 ('09)
53.25/52.2r ('10)
?/51.45r ('11)
Almost a 7% improvement over 3 years, assuming that 55.76 converts to a 55.1 relay leg.

2:03.08 ('08)
2:06.20 ('09)
2:04.34 ('10)
2:03.12? ('11)
No improvement. QED.

Need I say any more as to why some of us are still convinced that her path to a faster 800 is by way of a faster 400?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:45 am

26mi235 wrote:I think that she has a better chance of being world class in the 800 even if her 'expected value' is higher in the 400 -- there is a difference in those two objective functions.

Actually, the more I'm reminded of her high school exploits and her WJr performance the more convinced I am that she's "LESS than 800m: 400h/400/200/100" than she is "800+". Jearl Miles-Clark, Ana Quirot, Countless Russians ALL were World Class 400m runners BEFORE they were World Class 800 m runners. So, I don't agree with your expected value theory (not saying that you're not right, just saying that what I see doesn't lend itself to your conclusions).

As I said in December '09, if she had stopped with the mid-distance stuff after her sophomore year in high school and concentrated on the sprints - with a VERY GOOD track coach - she possibly could have been a sub-11.50/23.50 high school senior - which would have made her faster than Carmelita Jeter was in high school. It would have made her faster in high school than nearly EVERY US woman sprinter that has ever medalled at the Worlds/Olympics

26, what bothers me and Jacksf is that Roesler is an incredible talent and her outsized abilities would definitely make it more difficult to understand what her "best/better" event might be by the most experienced of coaches (think Bolt the 200m runner being pushed towards the 400m BEFORE he forced his coach to consider the 100 and changed EVERYONE's view on sprinting and the 100m). But, there is an obsession among coaches/parents and some "knowledgeable" TFN posters to push fast white kids to be "faster" mid-distance runners - as if sprinting can't even be considered, even when they're FASTER than the "sprinters" (or in Bolt's case, the short people). There, I said it.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:00 am

7-sided wrote:For "informational purposes". Jearl miles-clark career
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html

400
49.90 - 3rd '97 WC
50.00 - 3rd '95 WC
49.82 - 1st '93 WC
50.50 - 5th '91 WC
49.55 - 5th '96 Oly

800
6th place in Athens 1:57.27
4th place in Seville 1:57.40


You coached Jearl?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:33 am

gm wrote:
7-sided wrote:For "informational purposes". Jearl miles-clark career
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/biographie ... index.html

400
49.90 - 3rd '97 WC
50.00 - 3rd '95 WC
49.82 - 1st '93 WC
50.50 - 5th '91 WC
49.55 - 5th '96 Oly

800
6th place in Athens 1:57.27
4th place in Seville 1:57.40


You coached Jearl?

Would that really matter to you? :roll:
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Daisy » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:38 am

az2004 wrote:i doubt she's got great 200 speed like many 400 do

What about Juantorena, did he have/need speed? (not rhetorical)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gm » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:42 am

7, I am just trying to figure out where you're coming from with your assertions.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 7-sided » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:47 am

gm wrote:7, I am just trying to figure out where you're coming from with your assertions.

and, I'm wondering how you would be qualified to judge my assertions. How about this: you make your best case based upon any evidence you can provide and I'll make my best case (which I think I have)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:17 am

7-sided wrote:
26mi235 wrote:I think that she has a better chance of being world class in the 800 even if her 'expected value' is higher in the 400 -- there is a difference in those two objective functions.

Actually, the more I'm reminded of her high school exploits and her WJr performance the more convinced I am that she's "LESS than 800m: 400h/400/200/100" than she is "800+". Jearl Miles-Clark, Ana Quirot, Countless Russians ALL were World Class 400m runners BEFORE they were World Class 800 m runners. So, I don't agree with your expected value theory (not saying that you're not right, just saying that what I see doesn't lend itself to your conclusions).

As I said in December '09, if she had stopped with the mid-distance stuff after her sophomore year in high school and concentrated on the sprints - with a VERY GOOD track coach - she possibly could have been a sub-11.50/23.50 high school senior - which would have made her faster than Carmelita Jeter was in high school. It would have made her faster in high school than nearly EVERY US woman sprinter that has ever medalled at the Worlds/Olympics

26, what bothers me and Jacksf is that Roesler is an incredible talent and her outsized abilities would definitely make it more difficult to understand what her "best/better" event might be by the most experienced of coaches (think Bolt the 200m runner being pushed towards the 400m BEFORE he forced his coach to consider the 100 and changed EVERYONE's view on sprinting and the 100m). But, there is an obsession among coaches/parents and some "knowledgeable" TFN posters to push fast white kids to be "faster" mid-distance runners - as if sprinting can't even be considered, even when they're FASTER than the "sprinters" (or in Bolt's case, the short people). There, I said it.

DAMN!! I forgot all about Ana Quirot. Like Jearl, she is another example of a 400m runner who became a better 800 runner as her 400 performances improved. With Laura improving her 400 times by more than 3 seconds over 3 years, while standing still in the 800, she is definitely on the trajectory of Quirot and Miles-Clark.

And I must say, I'm astonished that no one has learned anything from watching Jeremy Wariner (20.19/43.45) and Christophe Lemaître (9.96/20.16). If either of them can defy expectations in an event no one expected them to do well, why not Laura Roesler? If she were Russian, we probably would not be having this discussion about whether she belongs in the 400/800 or the 800/1,500. I wonder why...
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