Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

[26mi235]

Running one 1500m race is going to ruin a sprinter[?]; give me a break. Given that she does sprint training, the 1500 is for the endurance side of the 800, it does not tell you anything about whether she is training for longer middle distance unless she is doing that at a championship meet.

[j-a-m]

51.76 split in the 4x400 semis.

[Jacksf]

Only 6 girls split faster than Laura.
As reference, please note that Diamond Dixon, the projected winner of the 400m by T&FN, split 51.57.

[CookyMonzta]

...It'll get really interesting if she goes 50.x on the relay. Last year's 51.4 split almost certainly gives her the B-standard in an open 400.

51.76 split in the 4x400 semis.

Tick...tick...tick...

[Blues]

Only 6 girls split faster than Laura.
As reference, please note that Diamond Dixon, the projected winner of the 400m by T&FN, split 51.57.

Don't even think about it...

Did you find the first and second leg splits, or did you mean that only 6 girls on the 3rd and 4th legs ran faster?

And Diamond Dixon wasn't pushed. Obviously that's a huge difference.. Laura and anchor Francis had to go all out to play catch up and their times showed it... The first 5 qualifiers in the open 400 prelims all ran faster than Laura's split from a standing start, and more might go faster in the final. An occasional split equivalent to an open 52 mid is impressive, but it isn't enough to warrant a switch to the 4 for an elite 800 runner, especially when you already have another 400 runner on the team running about 1.6 seconds faster. I think it's a good bet that she'll score more points for Oregon if she sticks to the 8 and the 4x4.

[Jacksf]

Ok, the first 5 qualifiers in the open 400m ran faster than Roesler's relay split.
But they are also not training for the 800m, which Laura is.
My point is, that Laura could well be running the 400m final IF she trained for it.
Just as she is running the 800m final.
She could be as good at the 400m as she is at the 800m.
And I wouldn't say Laura is an elite 800m runner - yet. Let's see how she goes in the final.

[26mi235]

Only 6 girls split faster than Laura.
As reference, please note that Diamond Dixon, the projected winner of the 400m by T&FN, split 51.57.

And the inference that you draw from that is that LR is about as fast? Really? Why in the world didn't Dixon, with plenty to spare for qualifying, use up a supreme effort to get a better split in the 4x400 heat..... She is one of three that could split 49.x, and while the US has a number of good 800 runners now, compared to the talent that is continually coming through in the 400 (Spencer is a frosh, running 51.02 on a weekend where she had 200 H/F [22.99], 400 H/F 51.99/51.02, 4x400 anchor for come-from-behind win, not sure about H/F 4x100), LR would be a footnote, I think.

Has she ever run a 51 under any conditions? She is good for 52.5 and that is just not very promising for a US 400 runner, and more dedicated 400 running might make her faster, but the 800 running made her fade less on the straight, which is where she made up ground at the end.

[preston]

Running one 1500m race is going to ruin a sprinter[?]; give me a break. Given that she does sprint training, the 1500 is for the endurance side of the 800, it does not tell you anything about whether she is training for longer middle distance unless she is doing that at a championship meet.

26, you are now trolling this thread. The things that you are posting are either patently untrue or insulting to even respond to. First, Roesler has run MORE than "one" 1500. I'm not gonna tell you how many because you have no interest in posting the facts. Just because she works with the sprint coach doesn't mean she does sprint training, for the last time. Name another sprinter or even 400m runner who actually races the 400m who runs in-season 1500's? You can't because they don't exist. Roesler is an 800/1500 runner who also runs on the relay. And, her racing tells us EXACTLY what she is and what type of training she is doing.

...An occasional split equivalent to an open 52 mid is impressive, but it isn't enough to warrant a switch to the 4 for an elite 800 runner, especially when you already have another 400 runner on the team running about 1.6 seconds faster...

Blues, I get what you're trying to say but ... you're going to have to define elite. If by elite 800m runner you mean collegiately, then Roesler is elite, but we're arguing that she has the ability, IF TRAINED LIKE THE WOMEN WHO ARE RUNNING THE 400M AT NCAA's THIS WEEKEND (which means NOT racing at 800/1500), to be an elite collegiate runner at 400m. If by elite you mean internationally, then Roesler is NOT elite (yet!).

[Blues]

Running one 1500m race is going to ruin a sprinter[?]; give me a break. Given that she does sprint training, the 1500 is for the endurance side of the 800, it does not tell you anything about whether she is training for longer middle distance unless she is doing that at a championship meet.

26, you are now trolling this thread. The things that you are posting are either patently untrue or insulting to even respond to. First, Roesler has run MORE than "one" 1500. I'm not gonna tell you how many because you have no interest in posting the facts. Just because she works with the sprint coach doesn't mean she does sprint training, for the last time. Name another sprinter or even 400m runner who actually races the 400m who runs in-season 1500's? You can't because they don't exist. Roesler is an 800/1500 runner who also runs on the relay.

Preston, in my experiences I've seen other 800m runners open the outdoor season with a 1500 or two for a little extra endurance base.. That doesn't mean they're 1500m runners. Laura was entered in a 1500 in the very first meet of last outdoor season (as was Phyllis Francis), and in 2 meets during the very first week of this outdoor season. That's it. After the first week of both of her collegiate outdoor seasons, Laura only ran the 800, the 4x4, and this season a 200. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see the evidence that supports your assertion that she's also a 1500m runner, at least not at this time.

[preston]

Preston, in my experiences I've seen other 800m runners open the outdoor season with a 1500 or two for a little extra endurance base.. That doesn't mean they're 1500m runners. Laura was entered in a 1500 in the very first meet of last outdoor season (as was Phyllis Francis), and in 2 meets during the very first week of this outdoor season. That's it. After the first week of both of her collegiate outdoor seasons, Laura only ran the 800, the 4x4, and this season a 200. Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see the evidence that supports your assertion that she's also a 1500m runner, at least not at this time.

A big part of the argument here is "how" someone is being trained. I see Roesler as being trained as a 8/15 girl (4:30-2012) who happens to be fast enough to run on the 4x4. I would agree that early season races doesn't mean that that is your event; however, through this thread it has been said, by those who think she's a mid-distance runner, that the 1500 may be her final destination (some even mentioned the 5k) so that is what I'm allowing. But, my point is that there is NO WAY that someone who is being trained as a "sprinter" (as some posters continue to erroneously state) is going to run a 1500. So, though you imply by saying "that's it" as if "only one" 1500 is insignificant, it is extraordinarily telling that she ran "off season" 15's instead of a 4. And that's why I have no problem calling her an 800m/1500 runner, because she ran ZERO races at 400m this year. I also have no poroblem stating that she is NOT doing sprint training; she may be doing speed work or speed development, but she is NOT being trained like a sprinter. She's being trained like an 800m runner (I'll concede that she isn't seriously COMPETING at 1500m).

[Jacksf]

Ok, the first 5 qualifiers in the open 400m ran faster than Roesler's relay split.
But they are also not training for the 800m, which Laura is.
My point is, that Laura could well be running the 400m final IF she trained for it.
Just as she is running the 800m final.
She could be as good at the 400m as she is at the 800m.
And I wouldn't say Laura is an elite 800m runner - yet. Let's see how she goes in the final.

Laura got 4th place in the 800m final.

[Jacksf]

Ok, the first 5 qualifiers in the open 400m ran faster than Roesler's relay split.
But they are also not training for the 800m, which Laura is.
My point is, that Laura could well be running the 400m final IF she trained for it.
Just as she is running the 800m final.
She could be as good at the 400m as she is at the 800m.
And I wouldn't say Laura is an elite 800m runner - yet. Let's see how she goes in the final.

Laura got 4th place in the 800m final.

51.68 got 4th place in the 400m.
Do I think Laura could run 51.68 if she was training for the 400m?
Yes, I do.

[ATK]

Ok, the first 5 qualifiers in the open 400m ran faster than Roesler's relay split.
But they are also not training for the 800m, which Laura is.
My point is, that Laura could well be running the 400m final IF she trained for it.
Just as she is running the 800m final.
She could be as good at the 400m as she is at the 800m.
And I wouldn't say Laura is an elite 800m runner - yet. Let's see how she goes in the final.

Laura got 4th place in the 800m final.

51.68 got 4th place in the 400m.
Do I think Laura could run 51.68 if she was training for the 400m?
Yes, I do.

I doubt she would have run that in the final if she was training for the 400.
Only 2 of the 8 in the final ran faster than they did in the prelims.

[Blues]

Ok, the first 5 qualifiers in the open 400m ran faster than Roesler's relay split.
But they are also not training for the 800m, which Laura is.
My point is, that Laura could well be running the 400m final IF she trained for it.
Just as she is running the 800m final.
She could be as good at the 400m as she is at the 800m.
And I wouldn't say Laura is an elite 800m runner - yet. Let's see how she goes in the final.

Laura got 4th place in the 800m final.

51.68 got 4th place in the 400m.
Do I think Laura could run 51.68 if she was training for the 400m?
Yes, I do.

2:01.06 won the NCAA Championship in the 800. Do I think Laura can run 2:01.06 if she continues to train for the 800? Absolutely. (especially considering that the 3 girls who beat Laura today didn't have to run an all out 4x4 last night like Laura did.)

50.95 won the NCAA Championship in the 400, with all the top placers having also run the 4x4 prelims last night. Do I think a less than fresh Laura could run a 50.95 if she trained for the 400? NO.

[Jacksf]

Wouldn't Laura, with all her 800m training behind her, be able to sustain the rounds of the 400m better than the other 400m runners? She is already running rounds of the relay and the 800m. So I would give her more credit there.
And, while she has been training for the 800m at a top track school, she just broke 2:03 for the first time at this meet.
Where's the evidence that supports your belief that she can get down to 2:01 flat?

[Jacksf]

I guess we don't need to speculate about Laura's 800m potential.
She's an 800m runner and we'll see how she'll do.

So tell me then, how fast you think she can run the 400m if she was training specifically and exclusively for this event.
No need to worry about running rounds and relays and such. Just how fast you think she can be.

[CookyMonzta]

Wouldn't Laura, with all her 800m training behind her, be able to sustain the rounds of the 400m better than the other 400m runners? She is already running rounds of the relay and the 800m. So I would give her more credit there.
And, while she has been training for the 800m at a top track school, she just broke 2:03 for the first time at this meet.
Where's the evidence that supports your belief that she can get down to 2:01 flat?

Not to mention that it took her 4 years to break 2:03.00. She's been running mid-51s/low-52s on the relay at least since her HS senior year. Her 51.7 leg in yesterday's heats is probably worth an open 52.4x, which would have made her a 400 finalist for sure. If she were training specifically for the 400, I think that 4th-place finish (51.68) would have been easily attainable for her. There are many 2:02.xx 800 runners who can't even break 54, either in the open 400 or on a relay..

[Blues]

Not to mention that it took her 4 years to break 2:03.00. She's been running mid-51s/low-52s on the relay at least since her HS senior year. Her 51.7 leg in yesterday's heats is probably worth an open 52.4x, which would have made her a 400 finalist for sure. If she were training specifically for the 400, I think that 4th-place finish (51.68) would have been easily attainable for her. There are many 2:02.xx 800 runners who can't even break 54, either in the open 400 or on a relay..

She's just a sophomore though. Looking at the past 6 NCAA Outdoor 800m champions and a few other elite college 800m runners of the period, Laura has already run faster as a sophomore than all of the past 6 NCAA Outdoor 800m Champs did in their sophomore years, and in some cases faster than some of them did until their senior years..(2012 NCAA Champ Nachelle Mackie, 2011 NCAA Champ Anne Kesselring, 2010 NCAA Champ Phoebe Wright, 2008 & 2009 NCAA Champ Geena Gall, 2007 NCAA Champ Alysia Johnson, as well as Charlene Lipsey, Latavia Thomas, etc.), and Laura has more innate speed than they do. Most of them were running 2:04-2:05 as sophs and sometimes even as juniors, not 2:02.09 like Laura has. As she gets stronger I honestly think her 800 time will continue to improve. And I know of two sub 52 splits for Laura now. Are there more?

*post edited to remove boneheaded blunder

[Dutra5]

A big part of the argument here is "how" someone is being trained. I see Roesler as being trained as a 8/15 girl (4:30-2012) who happens to be fast enough to run on the 4x4. I would agree that early season races doesn't mean that that is your event; however, through this thread it has been said, by those who think she's a mid-distance runner, that the 1500 may be her final destination (some even mentioned the 5k) so that is what I'm allowing. But, my point is that there is NO WAY that someone who is being trained as a "sprinter" (as some posters continue to erroneously state) is going to run a 1500. So, though you imply by saying "that's it" as if "only one" 1500 is insignificant, it is extraordinarily telling that she ran "off season" 15's instead of a 4. And that's why I have no problem calling her an 800m/1500 runner, because she ran ZERO races at 400m this year. I also have no poroblem stating that she is NOT doing sprint training; she may be doing speed work or speed development, but she is NOT being trained like a sprinter. She's being trained like an 800m runner (I'll concede that she isn't seriously COMPETING at 1500m).

http://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield ... laura.html

Roesler trains under Johnson, who works with Oregon's sprinters.

That makes her unique at Oregon. The Ducks' other top mid-distance runners -- Kesselring, Francis, Jordan Hasay, Becca Friday -- have more of a distance orientation.

[Blues]

And, while she has been training for the 800m at a top track school, she just broke 2:03 for the first time at this meet.
Where's the evidence that supports your belief that she can get down to 2:01 flat?

She's just a sophomore, and she broke 2:03 by almost a full second, so of course I think she can improve by a second or more... Only 3 US collegiate runners of any age have run faster than Laura's 2:02.09 during the 2012 NCAA outdoor season so far, and her 2:02.09 would be ranked even higher in most of the previous NCAA Outdoor seasons (for performances up to and through the NCAA meet). Laura's time would be the top ranked time for the 2011 season, she'd be ranked second for 2010, second for 2009, first for 2008, fifth for 2007, second for 2006, and again first for the 2005 season. It just seems hard to believe that her credentials for the 400 would be as impressive, regardless of how she trained. The time she just ran would have placed her among the top two on the overall NCAA Outdoor Season performance lists in 6 of the last 8 years, and 4th and 5th, respectively, in the other two years. That would take some pretty fast 400's to duplicate.
.

[Track fan]

Was there any debate like this about what event Sandra Meyers should run when she was in college or when she turned pro? She is the only other runner that I can recall who ran multiple events with such ability. Also was there a debate about moving her up to middle distance races when she was in high school or in college? Any old timers feel free to contribute.

[CookyMonzta]

Not to mention that it took her 4 years to break 2:03.00. She's been running mid-51s/low-52s on the relay at least since her HS senior year. Her 51.7 leg in yesterday's heats is probably worth an open 52.4x, which would have made her a 400 finalist for sure. If she were training specifically for the 400, I think that 4th-place finish (51.68) would have been easily attainable for her. There are many 2:02.xx 800 runners who can't even break 54, either in the open 400 or on a relay..

To be fair, if you're going to adjust split times from yesterday and say Laura would have run 52.4 today because she split 51.7 yesterday, then you should do it for everybody.. That means Phyllis Frances and Ashley Spencer should have run 49.5 today... Regina George should have run 50.4, Diamond Dixon should have run 50.9, etc. So Laura's adjusted split time of 52.4 would have been within 3 seconds of the winners, and within a second and a half of 4th or 5th place..Not bad for an 800m runner.

You got your math all mixed up there, bub. You made the mistake of subtracting .7 from the relay splits of Phyllis Francis and Ashley Spencer for an open 400 equivalent. Phyllis Francis' 50.16 split and Ashley Spencer's 50.18 split, by this standard, are worth 50.8x or 50.9x in an open 400, for which I think Roesler would probably have run 52.4x for 7th based upon her relay split. Spencer hit her mark with her 50.95 in the open final, while Francis was off her mark with a 51.79.

[gh]

Roesler trains under Johnson, who works with Oregon's sprinters.

That makes her unique at Oregon. The Ducks' other top mid-distance runners -- Kesselring, Francis, Jordan Hasay, Becca Friday -- have more of a distance orientation.

oops.... i hear some air coming out of some balloons here.

[Pego]

I will repeat my old mantra. Projecting child prodigies future accomplishments is pure fantasy. We have had quite a few of those lately.

[Blues]

Not to mention that it took her 4 years to break 2:03.00. She's been running mid-51s/low-52s on the relay at least since her HS senior year. Her 51.7 leg in yesterday's heats is probably worth an open 52.4x, which would have made her a 400 finalist for sure. If she were training specifically for the 400, I think that 4th-place finish (51.68) would have been easily attainable for her. There are many 2:02.xx 800 runners who can't even break 54, either in the open 400 or on a relay..

To be fair, if you're going to adjust split times from yesterday and say Laura would have run 52.4 today because she split 51.7 yesterday, then you should do it for everybody.. That means Phyllis Frances and Ashley Spencer should have run 49.5 today... Regina George should have run 50.4, Diamond Dixon should have run 50.9, etc. So Laura's adjusted split time of 52.4 would have been within 3 seconds of the winners, and within a second and a half of 4th or 5th place..Not bad for an 800m runner.

You got your math all mixed up there, bub. You made the mistake of subtracting .7 from the relay splits of Phyllis Francis and Ashley Spencer for an open 400 equivalent. Phyllis Francis' 50.16 split and Ashley Spencer's 50.18 split, by this standard, are worth 50.8x or 50.9x in an open 400, for which I think Roesler would probably have run 52.4x for 7th based upon her relay split. Spencer hit her mark with her 50.95 in the open final, while Francis was off her mark with a 51.79.

Holy smokes. I've had a brutal sinus infection and accompanying fever that has my head in a fog, and that's probably the most embarrassing thing I've ever done online. Thanks for not using more intense language to describe my mental deficiencies, despite the fact that more intense language was probably warranted...

[Jacksf]

Was there any debate like this about what event Sandra Meyers should run when she was in college or when she turned pro? She is the only other runner that I can recall who ran multiple events with such ability. Also was there a debate about moving her up to middle distance races when she was in high school or in college? Any old timers feel free to contribute.

From the LA Times 1991:
"It was too tough in the U.S.," Myers said. "For a white sprinter in the U.S., it was very, very difficult. It's kind of a phobia--you just don't see any white sprinters, and coaches aren't interested in developing them."

[mump boy]

Who on earth is Laura Roesler and what has she done to warrant such a long thread ?

[Blues]

Who on earth is Laura Roesler and what has she done to warrant such a long thread ?

Grrrr... I'll have to remember to post a similar reply in the next Jodie Williams thread...

Seriously though, Laura is a very personable 20 yr old young lady who is finishing up her second year at the University of Oregon. She comes from the small state of North Dakota, and as a high school senior won her state track and field championship in the 200m 400m and 800m, and finished second in the 100m. The year before she won all 4 events, and in earlier years also won state high school championships in at least one event. During her senior year in high school in 2010, she was the number two ranked high school 800m runner in the USA, and was the number 9 ranked 400m runner. Her 200m and 100m rankings weren't nearly near as high, despite winning her a state championship and a state runner up that year. Her high school PR's are below:

100 Meters - 11.90 (+6.1),
North Dakota State Meet,
Bismark, N.D., 5/23/08

200 Meters - 24.01 (nwi),
BCS/CHS Invite,
Bismark, N.D., 4/23/10

400 Meters - 53.25,
North Dakota State Meet,
Bismark, N.D., 5/29/10

800 Meters - 2:03.08,
Jim Bush Invitational,
Los Angeles, Calif., 6/7/08

She chose to attend one of the top collegiate track and field programs in America at the University of Oregon, and the coaches chose to use her as an 800m runner, as well as a major contributor in the 4x4. It took her all of her first year, and most of her second year, to significantly improve on her high school 800m PR and run 2:02.09 a few days ago. She's run two or three mid to high 51 second 4x400 splits on occasion while in college, so there's some debate among us as to whether her athletic potential would better be fulfilled if her coaches chose to make her a 400m specialist, and if she trained specifically for that event instead of the 800... At this time I'm among those who feel she can go further in the 800...

[Blues]

Who on earth is Laura Roesler and what has she done to warrant such a long thread ?

To continue (due to the number of characters in a post restriction), Laura just finished 4th in the 800m at the USA collegiate championships with at time of 2:02.96.. She has 2 years of college eligibility left. Two of the 3 athletes that finished ahead of her have 1 more year of eligibility left, while the other athlete that just beat Laura has finished her collegiate career. Next year will add two 800m high school superstars to the collegiate ranks, with Ajee Wilson (Florida State) and Amy Weissenbach (Stanford) joining the collegiate competitors. It'll be interesting to see how Laura progresses next year in comparison to the two who beat her this year, and in comparison to the two incoming freshmen.

[mump boy]

Thankyou for your very detailed reply.

I still don't understand why she warrants nearly 300 posts (she's certainly no Jodie Williams ) but i wish her the best of luck

[Master Po]

Thankyou for your very detailed reply.

I still don't understand why she warrants nearly 300 posts (she's certainly no Jodie Williams ) but i wish her the best of luck

I think maybe it's because of the "Is she a sprinter or a distance runner?" question -- we often get to discuss & debate which is the best event for various sprinters and various distance runners, but maybe bc she's doing 400 (mostly in 4x4) and 800 competitions, it has sparked a more than usual lengthy debate about her best event(s), both now and in her future. Of course, it's partly Roesler's fault, too, bc she continues to put up solid times at both distances but refuses to really put a definitive time out there in either one, and thus settle the debate for us!

[26mi235]

Was there any debate like this about what event Sandra Meyers should run when she was in college or when she turned pro? She is the only other runner that I can recall who ran multiple events with such ability. Also was there a debate about moving her up to middle distance races when she was in high school or in college? Any old timers feel free to contribute.

From the LA Times 1991:
"It was too tough in the U.S.," Myers said. "For a white sprinter in the U.S., it was very, very difficult. It's kind of a phobia--you just don't see any white sprinters, and coaches aren't interested in developing them."

The horse is dead, stop beating it. 1991 was before we had white guys going 1-2 in the 400 and JW's long tenure at the top of the sport.

If you do not have direct knowledge of her training at Oregon, I think you have spent pages and pages making strong assertions when you do not have anything other than an opinion about how something might be (and might not). When you get some real clues (trained by the sprint coach at Oregon, not like the other 800 runners) you just ignore it while having NOTHING to offer.

[gh]

Thankyou for your very detailed reply.

I still don't understand why she warrants nearly 300 posts (she's certainly no Jodie Williams ) but i wish her the best of luck

I'm sure you had no trouble understanding why Emily Pidgeon had 6 separate threads with her name in the title in '05 and '06, totaling over 300 posts, and one of them with almost 25,000 page views!

As much as you might like this to be a cosmopolitan, international meeting place, it's still largely a U.S. site, and the subject matter is going to reflect that. To express dismay/shock/surprise is just plain silly.

[Master Po]

Roesler's meet:

2:02.09, 51.76, 2:02.96, 51.86.

I know these 800 times are her two fastest, but how do the 400 splits compare to her others? (I am sure the answer is in this thread, but can't dig for it at the moment.)

edit: found it, maybe: 51.45 at PAC-12. (New question: Is that one her fastest 400 split?)

In any case, a good meet, and congratulations to her (whatever sort of runner she is).

[mump boy]

Thankyou for your very detailed reply.

I still don't understand why she warrants nearly 300 posts (she's certainly no Jodie Williams ) but i wish her the best of luck

I'm sure you had no trouble understanding why Emily Pidgeon had 6 separate threads with her name in the title in '05 and '06, totaling over 300 posts, and one of them with almost 25,000 page views!

As much as you might like this to be a cosmopolitan, international meeting place, it's still largely a U.S. site, and the subject matter is going to reflect that. To express dismay/shock/surprise is just plain silly.

I didn't display, dismay, shock or surprise, it was merely a question.

Emily Pidgeon was european Jnr champion at the age of 16 and ran european age records from the age of 12 she also had a lot of drama involving parents and coach. This situation is not comparable.

Threads can take on a life of their own for many reasons and no disrespect to Laura Roesler, who appears to be a very talented and versatile athlete, but her accomplishments don't seem to warrant this much discussion.

In what way is it unusual for someone to run 2.02 for 800m and a 52 relay split ? Why has this led to so much discussion ? There must have been 100's of USA athletes who could have done this previously, why is Laura Roesler of such interest ?

UK 17 year old just ran OG B standard of 2.01 last night i might just start a thread on her