Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]


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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby kuha » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:00 pm

I think, in part, that she's just gotten bigger--stronger, probably, but definitely bigger.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 8aldP|23 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:27 am

Laura ran a 4:30.41 1500m this morning
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:13 pm

Laura ran 2:05.83 for 2nd place in the 800m at the Pepsi meet in Oregon today.
She also anchored the 4x400m relay to tight win over Texas A&M.
Her split was 52.8, and she held off Kamaria Brown of A&M, who is the Big 12 indoor 200m champ (22.86 meet record), and 400m 2nd placer (52.60)
It still seems to me that Laura has more 400m talent than 800m talent; and that the lack of sprint speed argument is completely bogus.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby tandfman » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:12 pm

The fact that she has demonstrated sprint speed does not, to me, mean that her best distance isn't 800m.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:55 am

Maybe, maybe not. But the 400 is looking more and more like the better deal for her every day. Have you noticed that she's not even picked for the top 10 on the NCAA 800 formchart? I'll bet good horse money that 10th in the 400 will be in the mid-to-high-52s.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:54 pm

Roesler provides something for everyone at Penn Relays today:

2:04.5 (2nd leg of winning 4x800) start time 4:10 pm
http://pennrelaysonline.com/Results/results.aspx?en=487
Roesler's split 2nd fastest in the race (Chanelle Price 2:04.2).

53.0 (3rd leg of 2nd place 4x400) start time 5:50 pm
http://pennrelaysonline.com/Results/results.aspx?en=498
Roesler's split 5th fastest in the race.

Seems like a pretty good double in less than 2hrs time.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby tandfman » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:21 pm

Having seen both of those races at Penn, I still have the feeling that her better event is the 800.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Sun May 13, 2012 1:40 pm

bad day for the boo-birds on the board; first Hasay kicks to Pac-12 1500 win, now Roesler runs a masterful 800 to win.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Sun May 13, 2012 1:53 pm

smart running by Roesler.
:)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby guru » Sun May 13, 2012 2:00 pm

gh wrote:bad day for the boo-birds on the board; first Hasay kicks to Pac-12 1500 win..



Yes, well Hasay also "kicked" to a 1500(and 5K) win at PAC-12's last year.

Also, if noting facts makes me a boobird, I gleefully(to use your terminology) plead guilty.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 13, 2012 6:43 pm

guru wrote:
gh wrote:bad day for the boo-birds on the board; first Hasay kicks to Pac-12 1500 win..



Yes, well Hasay also "kicked" to a 1500(and 5K) win at PAC-12's last year.

Also, if noting facts makes me a boobird, I gleefully(to use your terminology) plead guilty.


You typically get more consideration from me (even if I am not stating it much because of posts like you just made on another thread where you had previously posted quickly about the dropoff after the top several in the 200 and then quoted/countered your own post with the note about the good times just now run by others.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby guru » Sun May 13, 2012 7:18 pm

I have no idea what you just said 26 lol, but there's a difference in my comments on Hasay, and those regarding the women's Trials 200. One involves my commentary on races already contested(Hasay), while the other was an observation on one still over a month away, which obviously is still a dynamic and fluid situation.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:44 pm

What I meant was really two things:

1) You have informative posts (across a lot of topics, even though we do not always agree)

2) You have no trouble modifying some of your positions when things change, as illustrated when you quickly amended your comments on a thread (without prompting) when a couple of ladies threw down some pretty good 200 times, indicating the drop off beyond the first few was no longer so great.

Both are meant as unalloyed complements.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Blues » Sun May 13, 2012 10:16 pm

gh wrote:bad day for the boo-birds on the board; first Hasay kicks to Pac-12 1500 win, now Roesler runs a masterful 800 to win.


Very nice 800... Maybe the 800 drained her, but Laura wasn't able to hold the lead in the 4x4 after Phyllis Francis' impressive 52.74 third leg gave Oregon a lead of about half a second going into the anchor leg though.... Arizona's long hurdler Georganne Moline passed Roesler for the win, running 51.66 to Roesler's 52.90. Both anchors were respectable and most people already know of Laura Roesler's accomplishments, so being from Tucson I want to take the opportunity to give the Wildcats' Georganne Moline huge props for what she's accomplished during her junior year, including the multiple personal bests she's achieved this season not only in the 400h (NCAA leading 55.12), but in the 400/4x4 as well.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby CookyMonzta » Mon May 14, 2012 1:19 am

gh wrote:bad day for the boo-birds on the board; first Hasay kicks to Pac-12 1500 win, now Roesler runs a masterful 800 to win.

A win is a win, yes; but 2:05.13 don't exactly impress me. She still has yet to run her H.S. PR of 2:03.02, and i doubt that performance will win the NCAA Champs.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Mon May 14, 2012 5:34 am

CookyMonzta wrote:
gh wrote:bad day for the boo-birds on the board; first Hasay kicks to Pac-12 1500 win, now Roesler runs a masterful 800 to win.

A win is a win, yes; but 2:05.13 don't exactly impress me. She still has yet to run her H.S. PR of 2:03.02, and i doubt that performance will win the NCAA Champs.


Performances and statistics can be endlessly interpreted (thank heaven)...I see her performance at PAC-12 in a different light. True -- it is not a PB, or even a 2:03-above her best to 2:04. And, yes, I agree that 2:05 isn't going to do much of anything at NCAA. Probably even a 2:03 isn't going to do a whole lot at that meet, though it might earn some points. All that noted, what she did in this conference championship race was win the conference championship, which for me is the primary standard of assessment of a championship race. It was not a fast pace: she ran intelligently in 4th through 600, and then ran away from the field. Not fast, but well done. No predictions about NCAA, much less the distant future. We'll see the next step in a few weeks. For now, a fine race, and a well-earned championship.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Mon May 14, 2012 7:59 am

I think "boo birds" is a bit strong. The issue was whether she was in the right event (and when she consistently splits amont the fastest women of the day some of us have to wonder what she would/could split if she was trained primarily as a sprinter). 2:05 and a win doesn't exactly prove the point one way or the other. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few women 400m and 400h who were capable of winning PAC-12's and running 2:05.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby tandfman » Mon May 14, 2012 7:01 pm

My thoughts are the same as Master Po's.

I still think she's an 800 runner.

We'll see soon enough what she and her coaches think.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Mon May 14, 2012 8:25 pm

I agree with Preston on this one.
Good win for her, but she still has not improved her times in the 800m.
I think if she was training as a 400m runner (which is where I think her greatest talent lies), she could have won the Pac 12 400m.
As it is, she runs anchor on the 4 x 400m Oregon relay, and one of the other girls on the relay, won the 400m title.
As far as what the coaches think - we already know, since they have her running the 800m, and have never had her drop down to run an individual 400m.
Maybe they are afraid of how well she might do ;p
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 14, 2012 8:41 pm

A freshman from Illinois wins the Big 10 400 in 51.02 on a 'not fast track' with no one near her while also winning the 200 (22.9x?) and the 4x400, so 5 races (unless she also ran heats/finals of the 4x100). [and she might not be the best frosh with Diane Dixon, but I am guessing some people are going to adjust their forecast for NCAAs...]

Roesler does not have those kinds of wheels.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby EPelle » Mon May 14, 2012 11:10 pm

Jacksf wrote:As far as what the coaches think - we already know, since they have her running the 800m, and have never had her drop down to run an individual 400m.
Maybe they are afraid of how well she might do ;p

That Roesler hadn't run an open 400m seemed improbable. In fact, Roesler ran 54,63 for sixth in the open 400 at the 2011 Stanford Invitational.

Code: Select all
Event 54  Women 400 Meter Dash -
================================================================
    Name                    Year School                  Finals
================================================================
Section  1 
  1   141 Williams, Shelise      Arkansas                 52.50 
  2  3395 Williams, Charonda     adidas                   52.71 
  3   125 George, Regina         Arkansas                 53.46 
  4  1295 McLaughlin, Ashlea     UCLA                     54.11 
  5   133 Jones, Whitney         Arkansas                 54.54 
  6   963 Roesler, Laura         Oregon                   54.63 
  7  1158 Levingston, Cariss     Stanford                 55.14 
  8  1155 Hendricks, Shataya     Stanford                 56.74 
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Tue May 15, 2012 5:57 am

26mi235 wrote:A freshman from Illinois wins the Big 10 400 in 51.02 on a 'not fast track' with no one near her while also winning the 200 (22.9x?) and the 4x400, so 5 races (unless she also ran heats/finals of the 4x100). [and she might not be the best frosh with Diane Dixon, but I am guessing some people are going to adjust their forecast for NCAAs...]

Roesler does not have those kinds of wheels.

She doesn't have the wheels? That's ridiculous! ASHLEY SPENCER DIDN'T HAVE THOSE TYPE OF WHEELS AT AGE 16! SHE HAD TO DEVELOP THEM! That is the problem with you 26mi235: you're disingenuous and hell bent on promoting your bias. Did Ashley Spencer run 22.xx as a sophomore in high school? Did she run sub-54? Because that is the ONLY comparison that you should be making! The point that I, jacksf, and cookymonzta have been making is that HAD Roessler been sprinting since her sophomore year she very well COULD (don't think any of us ever said would) have been a top sprinter by now (OR NOT). But what is entirely mind-boggling to people who actually follow track as a passion is that you, and a few others, expect her to run sprint times WHILE TRAINING FOR THE 800m! Why would she get faster by training considerably slower years on end? (Any trace of sprint muscles de-trained on a daily basis yet she still runs sprint splits and physically shares a resemblance to a sprinter.)

Even looking at the list below you find Roesler getting 6th in a race, where SHE DID NOT PB, that included a professional athlete who ran the 200m in Berlin and 3 of the women from Arkansas who have been part of one of the best SEC quartets for the last few years and she held her own. Now, which one of them ran faster than Roessler for 100, 200 or 400 at the age of 16? Answer that! Without even researching it I will say not one. But you're welcome to prove me wrong.
EPelle wrote:
Code: Select all
Event 54 Women 400 Meter Dash -
================================================================
Name Year School Finals
================================================================
Section 1
1 141 Williams, Shelise Arkansas 52.50
2 3395 Williams, Charonda adidas 52.71
3 125 George, Regina Arkansas 53.46
4 1295 McLaughlin, Ashlea UCLA 54.11
5 133 Jones, Whitney Arkansas 54.54
6 963 Roesler, Laura Oregon 54.63
7 1158 Levingston, Cariss Stanford 55.14
8 1155 Hendricks, Shataya Stanford 56.74


Time and again within this thread it has been shown where 400m runners didn't have blazing 100 or 200 speed and still managed to 1) make US Olympic Teams AND even win global championships; or 2) get FASTER! There is a possibility that Roessler is in the correct event (5000 gh? really?); there is also a possibility that she COULD have been a top sprinter. Just ask Kaleise Spencer or Monique Hennagan or Jearl Miles or Ana Quirot...(I'd list more but you obviously haven't been paying attention in the thread so why bother).
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Tue May 15, 2012 6:17 am

Fantu Magiso, allowed to develop her "speed" (in distance-mad Ethiopia, no less) until the age of 18 ran 1:57.90 to nearly beat Pamela Jelimo in Doha. Last year she set PB's of 23.90 and 52.09 (times that would have scored her at almost any NCAA conference meet) in the 200 and 400, respectively - yet she DOUBLED in Daegu: running 1:59.17 for 4th in the w800m semifinal and 53.41 for 7th in w400m semifinal.

What could have been...
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 15, 2012 9:58 am

Preston, LR does not have 51.02 (on slowish track) wheels. I think her all-out 400r legs are 51-high and that is 52.3 or so. 1.25 seconds (or more) at that level is BIG. LR has been stable at her level for a long time, whereas Spencer is apparently developing rapidly at this point. Spencer ran that 51.02 after running 51.99 in the prelim, doing a 4x100 Prelim and 200 Prelim [all Saturday] and 1x100 Final (trying to catch Manning, the winner of the 100) then the 400 while saving something for the 200 [she won in 22.99/0.x, beating Manning] and the 4x400 [coming from second to anchor a 3:31 despite a slowish first leg].

Those are wheels LR simply does not have (those are OG 400 Final wheels since the slow track and multitude of races implies she may go 50.5 soon).
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Tue May 15, 2012 10:02 am

26mi235 wrote:Preston, LR does not have 51.02 (on slowish track) wheels. I think her all-out 400r legs are 51-high and that is 52.3 or so. 1.25 seconds (or more) at that level is BIG. LR has been stable at her level for a long time, whereas Spencer is apparently developing rapidly at this point. Spencer ran that 51.02 after running 51.99 in the prelim, doing a 4x100 Prelim and 200 Prelim [all Saturday] and 1x100 Final (trying to catch Manning, the winner of the 100) then the 400 while saving something for the 200 [she won in 22.99/0.x, beating Manning] and the 4x400 [coming from second to anchor a 3:31 despite a slowish first leg].

Those are wheels LR simply does not have (those are OG 400 Final wheels since the slow track and multitude of races implies she may go 50.5 soon).

Show me where spencer had 11.90/24.30/53.25 "wheels" at age 16?
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 15, 2012 11:29 am

I did not say anything about her 16-year-old wheels [at least I do not think that I did and did not mean to give that impression]. Thanks for clearing that up, because it means that to an extent we are not necessarily in disagreement.

I was just trying to saying that she (now) has wheels that (I do not think that ) LR will ever have. Given LR's background (state titles ~7/8th grade in the sprints) she has been a top runner with some emphasis on sprints for a long time there does not seem the same room for the type of improvement. LR is developing fairly slowly at this point and seems highly unlikely to suddenly drop big sprint PRs. She will never run a 22.x and I am not sure she even has a 23.x to her credit.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Tue May 15, 2012 12:32 pm

26mi235 wrote:I did not say anything about her 16-year-old wheels [at least I do not think that I did and did not mean to give that impression]. Thanks for clearing that up, because it means that to an extent we are not necessarily in disagreement.

I was just trying to saying that she (now) has wheels that (I do not think that ) LR will ever have. Given LR's background (state titles ~7/8th grade in the sprints) she has been a top runner with some emphasis on sprints for a long time there does not seem the same room for the type of improvement. LR is developing fairly slowly at this point and seems highly unlikely to suddenly drop big sprint PRs. She will never run a 22.x and I am not sure she even has a 23.x to her credit.

Well, she certainly will never run 22.xx while training for the 800+ but we'll never really know if she COULD HAVE (for the record, I'm not saying that she would have I just leave open the possibility). But, the fact that she ran 24.30, with North Dakota weather and competition, while training mid/long-distance and running so many events ... I'm pretty confident that she was a sub-24s 200m runner when she was a sophomore in high school and probably would have finished high school near sub-23.50 (the fact that she doesn't have one to her credit is little different than Usain Bolt not having a 100m to his credit prior to the 2007 season. He was still fast enough to be top-5 in the world at 100m).

Also, I'm not sure if this is a correction but she won the XC champs as a 7/8th grader (I'm not sure if she won the sprints also but I don't think so...); she just happened to also have 12.0 speed. My point that is shared by CookyMonzta and jacksf is that at that point in time with a concentration in the sprints she COULD HAVE become a sprinter. But long before she ever got to Oregon they decided she would be a mid-distance runner and that is how they trained her. She is only continuing what she thinks is her best event and it's so difficult to contend that because she ran 2:03 as a 16-year old; but, she also ran faster than most of Jamaica's 16-year old sprinters in the 100, 200 and 400 - had she grown up in Jamaica we might be seeing Sanya Richards toughest Rival. Or, had she grown up in Australia maybe she would be a podium threat but growing up in the US made her "destined" to be a mid-distance runner. And, that's unfortunate (if it turns out that she could have been better at the shorter sprints).
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 15, 2012 1:55 pm

It is my memory that she was as much a sprinter as an 800 runner until later in high school, maybe even more so. It is not the case (I don't think) that she was typically training for the 800 and ran the sprints occasionally. I think she had more titles in the 200 than anything and at least as many 100s as 800 (but not sure).
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Tue May 15, 2012 2:18 pm

26mi235,
I think it is really unfair and ridiculous of you to constantly dismiss Laura Roesler's speed.
I am repeating myself here, but you are ignoring these facts:

*Her HS time of 53.25 was 9th fastest in the country that year.
*Her HS 200m pb was 24.01.
*She ran on the gold medal 2010 WJrChampionships 4x400m relay with collegians, and had the 2nd fastest split.
--"The team of Texas prep Diamond Dixon (54.3), Stacey-Ann Smith (52.1) of Texas, North Dakota high schooler Laura Roesler (52.3) and Regina George (52.5) of Arkansas zipped to a 3:31.20, the fastest junior time in the world this year."
--(by the way, the other prep on that team, Diamond Dixon, just won the Big 12 400m title in 51.09. Regina George just won the SEC title in 51.83. )

Laura ran all these great sprint times, while:
1/ also training for the 800m
2/ running in ND, where the weather is much colder than Calif or Texas, and winters much longer.
3/ running against much weaker competition
If she had been training exclusively as a sprinter in a warm weather state, we could have reasonably expected even faster times from her.

Also she routinely has the fastest splits on the Oregon relay team, even though she trains for the 800m.
The girl has speed.
So please take that argument off the table, and find some more reasonable arguments to make your case (as think as it might be - haha)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Master Po » Tue May 15, 2012 3:05 pm

I want to assert -- with all confidence -- that I have no idea which is her best event. I mean that and I won't be persuaded otherwise until perhaps her career is over, and perhaps not even then. But I am enjoying reading this thread, as Roesler's career development is really interesting.

All I can add is some stats and trivia:

Some of this is already reported, but these are, I think, her prep bests:

11.90 (2008)
24.01 (2008 or 2009)
53.25 (2010)
2:03.08 (2008)

As for her state championship record, it's pretty damn impressive, even for the small and frozen pond of North Dakota. (Also, because it's a small pond, it's possible for 7th-8th grade athletes to participate in the state meet.) Thus:

2005 (7)
400m, 1st; 800m, 5th
2006 (8)
100m, 1st; 200m, 1st; 400m, 1st; 800m, 1st
2007 (9)
100m, 1st; 200m, 1st; 400m, 1st; 800m, 1st
2008 (10)
100m, 1st; 200m, 1st; 400m, 1st; 800m, 1st
2009 (11)
100m, 1st; 200m, 1st; 400m, 1st; 800m, 1st
2010 (12)
100m, 2nd; 200m, 1st; 400m, 1st; 800m, 1st.

So -- assuming I can add -- that's 20 state t&f championships. Adding the xc titles below, it's 22 state titles.

XC (4km)
2004-2005 (7-8): 2nd
2006-2007 (9-10): 1st
2008 (11): 50th
2009 (12): 5th

fwiw -- not that there's any way of comparing anything -- her fastest time at the state xc champs was 2006, with a 14:33.

Also, in the interests of Roesler-related trivia, the athlete who "de-throned" Roesler in the 2010 state 100m championships was then-9th grader Morgan Milbrath, who returned to the ND state t&f meet last year as a sophomore and won the titles at 100/200/400. Her bests (that I can find) are 11.87/24.32/56.02. Stay tuned for the 2012 ND state t&f championships.

Finally, in the interests of Roesler-family-t&f-trivia, Laura Roesler's sister, Emily, who competes for ND State as heptathlete, scored 4124 in the Summit League championships last weekend.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby gh » Tue May 15, 2012 3:24 pm

Jacksf wrote:26mi235,
I think it is really unfair and ridiculous of you to constantly dismiss Laura Roesler's speed.....
Also she routinely has the fastest splits on the Oregon relay team, even though she trains for the 800m.
The girl has speed.
So please take that argument off the table, and find some more reasonable arguments to make your case (as think as it might be - haha)


After watching her closely in 3 races this weekend (including one in which she did not have the fastest split on the Oregon team and got her hat handed to her on the anchor by hurdler Georganne Moline, allow me to repeat my contention that any future she has is in the 800 (and her future there could be good). You can believe all the 1/2/4 times you want, but you don't have to be an eagle-eye to see that she simply doesn't have the turnover to make it as a big-time quartermiler. (this is one of those things where I'd love to be proved wrong, but that's the lay of the land as I see it)
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby slowjo » Tue May 15, 2012 3:30 pm

I know nothing really about Laura but threads like this make me grateful to have run in the pre-historic age.

And since most of you are in the same age bracket...can you imagine going on the internet and coming upon a thread like this about you? It must feel surreal. Okay well you coud not have gone on the internets becasue Al had not invented it yet but you get what I mean I hope.

And I am quite sure most of the athletes DO read this stuff.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Blues » Tue May 15, 2012 3:50 pm

Jacksf wrote:26mi235,

Also she routinely has the fastest splits on the Oregon relay team, even though she trains for the 800m.
The girl has speed.


To be fair to the other ladies on the Ducks' 4x4 team, Roesler hasn't had the fastest splits in Oregon's most recent and most important 4x4 races so far this year. Francis and Okodogbe both ran faster splits at the Penn Relays, and at least Francis ran faster at PAC-12's.. (Not sure what Okodogbe's split was at PAC-12's, but she ran a very nice sub 52 leg at Penn to make up much of the ground that the 57 sec. lead off leg lost). It'll be interesting to see how they compare at NCAA's.
Last edited by Blues on Tue May 15, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 15, 2012 4:01 pm

Jack, I am not dismissing LR's speed and she is actually an athlete I admire very highly, more highly than many athletes that are absolutely better in one or two events. I thin her range is FABULOUS and I very much appreciate how rare her talent is and her dedication like is also.

I am saying that she does not have the wheels of someone who has blown into the event (400) on wings this spring [she is the leading collegiate 400 runner (and on a track that is likely 0.2+ slower than those her competitors have set their marks) on and I did not know who she was until this weekend and got to see her four or five times]. She could possibly have an Olympic Gold Medal come August (4x400), something LR will not have any realistic shot at. Saying that she does not have those wheels is in no way demeaning and, while we know LR has lasted quite a while already and likely will be around for a while (if I am lucky), I have no way of knowing if Spencer will last.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Tue May 15, 2012 4:08 pm

gh wrote:
After watching her closely in 3 races this weekend (including one in which she did not have the fastest split on the Oregon team and got her hat handed to her on the anchor by hurdler Georganne Moline, allow me to repeat my contention that any future she has is in the 800 (and her future there could be good). You can believe all the 1/2/4 times you want, but you don't have to be an eagle-eye to see that she simply doesn't have the turnover to make it as a big-time quartermiler. (this is one of those things where I'd love to be proved wrong, but that's the lay of the land as I see it)


I saw her at the Pepsi Invitational and she beat Kamaria Brown of A&M on the final leg, who is the Big 12 indoor 200m champ (22.86 meet record).
So I guess everyone sees and believes what they want to see and believe!

Meanwhile, this statement is almost heresy: "You can believe all the 1/2/4 times you want, but..."
Times don't lie. That's what track is all about!
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Tue May 15, 2012 4:19 pm

26mi235 wrote:Jack, I am not dismissing LR's speed and she is actually an athlete I admire very highly, more highly than many athletes that are absolutely better in one or two events. I thin her range is FABULOUS and I very much appreciate how rare her talent is and her dedication like is also.

I am saying that she does not have the wheels of someone who has blown into the event (400) on wings this spring [she is the leading collegiate 400 runner (and on a track that is likely 0.2+ slower than those her competitors have set their marks) on and I did not know who she was until this weekend and got to see her four or five times]. She could possibly have an Olympic Gold Medal come August (4x400), something LR will not have any realistic shot at. Saying that she does not have those wheels is in no way demeaning and, while we know LR has lasted quite a while already and likely will be around for a while (if I am lucky), I have no way of knowing if Spencer will last.


Actually you did say that her speed was basically ordinary.

But anyway, here's the thing - you keep saying that Laura doesn't have the potential to be world class in the 400m. And Gary basically saying the same thing, that she isn't fast enough to be 'big time'.
But where's your argument to say that she can be world class or big time in the 800m.
It's her event for now. She is training for it with some of the best runners in the country, and one of the top schools in the country, and she's still a 2:05 runner.
Where's the big time, world class potential there?!
I'm not saying she has Olympic potential in the 400m. I'm just saying that's her better event.
And I think I've made a good case for it.
On the 800m side, I haven't seen any case made for her 800m potential, other than you think she's too slow for the 400m.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby preston » Tue May 15, 2012 6:11 pm

gh wrote:After watching her closely in 3 races this weekend (including one in which she did not have the fastest split on the Oregon team and got her hat handed to her on the anchor by hurdler Georganne Moline, allow me to repeat my contention that any future she has is in the 800 (and her future there could be good). You can believe all the 1/2/4 times you want, but you don't have to be an eagle-eye to see that she simply doesn't have the turnover to make it as a big-time quartermiler. (this is one of those things where I'd love to be proved wrong, but that's the lay of the land as I see it)

gh, you let me down. :( Do you not get the fact that though Roesler MIGHT HAVE BEEN A SPRINTER IF SHE CONTINUED TO SPRINT AT AGE 16...she's been training as an 800m runner; that's what she is now. Of Course the #1 400h'r in collegiate track and field and world leader up until about a week ago would have more turnover! Plus, let's just negate the fact that Moline was exercising a sprint stimulus all weekend while Roesler was expressing a mid-distance stimulus... I'm shocked that you would even write such a thing. You're the editor for chrissakes! You're supposed to be the last stop to sanity on this board and a post like that shows you're clearly off the deep end. What's a guy to believe in now? :mrgreen: How many 1500m do you think Moline ran over the last 2 years? And Moline, who might one day be called on to move up to the 800m if the usual suspects on this board have their way :roll: , was a 43 hurdler coming out of high school. Moline is a sprinter! But, if you train a sprinter like a distance runner for 6 years <*cough "Roesler" cough*> eventually any turnover they had will cease to exist.

Also, it's been said over and over throughout this thread but Roesler was training to go the Olympic trials as an 800m runner in 2008. She used the sprint races as her speedwork but she was trained as an 800m runner. As an 800m runner. As an 800m runner. As an 800m runner. I don't know how many times it can be written before you guys actually internalize that she WAS NOT TRAINED TO BE A SPRINTER IN HIGH SCHOOL she just happened to be faster than everybody so they ran the races as her speedwork*.

I'm not saying that she wouldn't have ended up as an 800m runner (see: Miles, J; Quirot, A; Rainey, M; countless RUS); I'm just saying that MORE time should have been spent developing her absolute speed, especially when she was faster than most of America's sprinters when she was 16.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 15, 2012 6:29 pm

Not having 51.02 wheels does not imply her speed is 'ordinary', and I did not say it was ordinary (neither did I say anything about the 16-year speed of S..., just her FR emergence, not (nearly?) as high a profile as Diane Dixon, who she now marginally outranks for 1st prior to Regionals).

I had said a fair bit earlier that I thought her 400 speed was good enough that she might make world-class level in the 800 (going through at 57 is not going to max her out, although it might not be feasible to go the next 400 at the slightly slower pace to be world-class).

She might be better at the 400 than at the 800, but in that case it is as much because she cannot get the 800 time down the next couple of steps (2:03 => 2:01 => 1:59) rather than that she is even better (50-low or 49-high) at 400. I am not sure what her training is like, but I would guess that it is not 'pure' 800 but a mix of 800 and 400, since she has an important role on a good 4x400 team in an event that swings points at NCAAs.

People like guru have a better understanding of the particulars of women 400 runners of this age and probably the 800 as well.

In summary, I generally agree with gh.

As for a new post "Do you not get the fact that though Roesler MIGHT HAVE BEEN A SPRINTER IF SHE CONTINUED TO SPRINT AT AGE 16...s"

I think that she has had plenty of training for 400, just not exclusively 400 but I highly doubt it has been neglected. S went from LR's times to 51.02 overnight and LR has had enough training doing sprints to have accessed those capabilities if they were there. Given how early she developed I do not think that substantially higher level of speed would have suddenly come out at 17 or 18 or 19 if only she had worked on 'half-distance' down (distances down are halves 800/400/200 ...) more fully than she did. She definitely has NOT trained as a 800/1500 runner but as a 800/400 runner. Her 100 times indicate that she has no chance to be world-class at the very short end, speed is more basic than that and she has good speed but is not a short sprinter even though she had some opportunity to try it.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby Jacksf » Tue May 15, 2012 8:32 pm

26mi235 wrote:Not having 51.02 wheels does not imply her speed is 'ordinary', and I did not say it was ordinary


Actually, you said it at least twice!

"Her speed wheels . . . are pretty ordinary for a long sprinter."
"...in the 400 where her speed is relatively ordinary"

...about a girl who is anchoring one of the best 4x400m teams in the country, while training for the 800m;
who was the 9th fastest 400m HSer in country;
who was the 25th fastest 200m HSer in the country.
who hasn't had the chance to develop her wheels any further.

Who knows how fast she would be in the 400m if she were training for it?!
Some of her 400m HS contemporaries are doing quite well. Maybe she would have too.
Diamond Dixon ran 52.95 in HS (now down to 51.09 this wkend)
Roesler ran 53.25 in HS that same year.
Not a big difference.
But you and Gary would have us believe that her speed is 'ordinary' or inadequate for the 400m.
Shame on you!

I hope after this Olympic year, if Laura doesn't have a break through in the 800m, the coaches at least give her a chance to see what she can do at 400m.
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Re: Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Tue May 15, 2012 9:08 pm

What part of 'for a long sprinter' do you not understand? SRR is a long sprinter; she just ran an early-season 10.89w. That is huge speed for a long sprinter, even one as fast as SRR. But she had plenty of years running sprints and was not getting faster than 12/24.x She was not Fast for a long sprinter -- so she has ordinary speed for a long sprinter. She has better speed for an 800 gal (better than ordinary for a mid-distance runner, like Vessey has, if that rings a bell).

Ordinary speed for a long sprinter ~~ above ordinary for an 800 runner. And her speed is mediocre for a short sprinter.

But, it is not like she never ran a sprint races, she ran dozens of them, probably many dozens of them. She did not train for those by running 50 miles/week. She trained across the range from 100 the 800 and did the 1600 because she was a cut above everyone else athletically. Note than when another good 12/24 sprinter showed up, she actually came in second.
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