Which event for Laura Roesler? [split]

[Daisy]

When Michael Holloway (John Capel, Dennis Mitchell...) was at Buchholz high school in Gainesville, FL his high school teams led the state in the 4x1 and he dominated high school cross country. (yes, he COACHED both) Did he coach the Cross Country athletes like sprinters?

Imagine how much better his cross country team would have been if they had been doing reps over 200m!!!!

[preston]

...Laura was entered in a 1500 in the very first meet of last outdoor season (as was Phyllis Francis), and in 2 meets during the very first week of this outdoor season. That's it. After the first week of both of her collegiate outdoor seasons, Laura only ran the 800, the 4x4, and this season a 200...

Blues, I wanted to address this further. Phyllis Francis ran the 800m and the 1500m when she was in high school. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you will find athletes out of the northeast who routinely run 400 and 800m and excel; they end up at LSU or Tennessee a lot. However, at Oregon, this same athlete who had lesser high school numbers than Roesler was moved to 400m (which I have NO PROBLEM with by the way; and I've said repeatedly that I have no issue with Roesler running the 800m). Here are her races this season: 800, 4x4, 200, 4x4, 4x1, 400, 4x1, 200, 4x4, 4x4, 4x2, 4x4, 4x1, 400, 400, 200, 200, 4x1, 4x4, 400, 400. That's a sprint schedule. Roesler's schedule is NOT that of a sprinter.

High School (Francis)
http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/A ... AID=690823
400 Meters
2009 Outdoor 11 56.83a
2010 Indoor 12 56.32a

600 Meters
2009 Indoor 11 89.90a
2010 Indoor 12 1:32.14a

800 Meters
2008 Outdoor 10 2:09.29a
2009 Outdoor 11 2:10.03a
2010 Indoor 12 2:12.88a

1500 Meters
2009 Outdoor 11 5:28.00a

[Blues]

The fact that she runs the 800m at champs and throughout the season without running any open 400m tells us EXACTLY which event Roesler is training for - regardless of what her coach's title says on UO T&F coaches organizational chart. And, expecting Roesler to be the best in the 400m (comparing her against athletes who are training for and racing at 400m - or less- every weekend) while training for the 800m is, well...silly.

Well she DID run an open 200.. But you're correct in that she's being uniquely trained to do the best at 800, while still maximizing her speed to be efficient in the 4x4... In the same article that discusses her unique training among Oregon 800m runners, it states:

"It's kind of nice approaching the 800 from a different way," Roesler says. "There are challenges to it. I don't have training partners. But it gives me confidence to know I have the speed to be able to drop down to the 4x4."

Because of the unusual type of speed oriented 800m training she's doing, I'm not sure we can automatically assume that if she trained only for the 400 that she'd be significantly faster at 400m.. I may be a little biased because I was an 800m runner who also ran the 4x4 anchor, but I'd be willing to bet that at least a few 400m sprinters might actually improve their 400m performance with a little bit of 800m training under their belts. Based on each athlete's physical and physiological attributes, there are obviously different methods of training required to achieve the best end result for each particular athlete in a particular event.

Nobody's saying that Laura trains exclusively like a 400m athlete, but it's clear that she DOESN'T train like the normal 800/1500m athlete, so it's possible that being trained as an 800/4x4 athlete might not hurt her 400 performances nearly as much as if she was being trained with more of an endurance emphasis, like the other 800 runners.

[Blues]

...Laura was entered in a 1500 in the very first meet of last outdoor season (as was Phyllis Francis), and in 2 meets during the very first week of this outdoor season. That's it. After the first week of both of her collegiate outdoor seasons, Laura only ran the 800, the 4x4, and this season a 200...

Blues, I wanted to address this further. Phyllis Francis ran the 800m and the 1500m when she was in high school. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you will find athletes out of the northeast who routinely run 400 and 800m and excel; they end up at LSU or Tennessee a lot. However, at Oregon, this same athlete who had lesser high school numbers than Roesler was moved to 400m (which I have NO PROBLEM with by the way; and I've said repeatedly that I have no issue with Roesler running the 800m). Here are her races this season: 800, 4x4, 200, 4x4, 4x1, 400, 4x1, 200, 4x4, 4x4, 4x2, 4x4, 4x1, 400, 400, 200, 200, 4x1, 4x4, 400, 400. That's a sprint schedule. Roesler's schedule is NOT that of a sprinter.

High School (Francis)
http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/A ... AID=690823
400 Meters
2009 Outdoor 11 56.83a
2010 Indoor 12 56.32a

600 Meters
2009 Indoor 11 89.90a
2010 Indoor 12 1:32.14a

800 Meters
2008 Outdoor 10 2:09.29a
2009 Outdoor 11 2:10.03a
2010 Indoor 12 2:12.88a

1500 Meters
2009 Outdoor 11 5:28.00a

Preston, with all due respect, Phyllis Francis was an elite high school 800m runner as well as a very good high school 400m runner, but there's no way in the world she could be considered a prep 1500 meter runner.

[26mi235]

Training "under a sprint coach" doesn't mean that Roesler is being trained like a sprinter or trained for the sprints; it could mean that a very knowledgeable coach (Johnson) is devising a training program that retains as much of an athletes speed while trying to maximize an athlete's performance at the CHOSEN event - which is 800m (.

The problem is that you are beating a dead horse because you do not know how she is being trained -- if you knew explicitly you would have said so and you have not. So, why do you persist because she might not be trained the "right" way for her to do what you seem certain is best for her. Meanwhile, implicitly (at the very least) you think that those that know about her training and her capabilities and her interests and are much better at it than you or I are wrong. Arrogance is a word that comes to mind. Note that neither I nor many others are saying that she should be doing 'this'. I am just guessing that her most likely area to be really good is in the 800 and if her best event is the 400 it will likely be the case that she would not be at the top level.

Also, a weakness in your examples might be that they are where the coach is got no strong alternatives (i.e., someone as good a coach as they are but in the different specialty) whereas at Oregon we have the particular (and singular) case of the runner who does 800/4x400r being trained by the sprint coach and not be the very capable mid-distance coach.

[preston]

I wasn't trying to imply that Francis was a 1500m runner; sorry if my post gave you that impression. The point that I've been making, is that Roesler COULD HAVE been an elite 400m runner; she compared favorably to Francis who ran the 4/8 in high school. Francis is good and though we can't draw conclusions for Roesler based upon Francis' success, I will say that I believe Roesler had as much promise to be successful at 400m if she were only running 400m and 4x1's every week, like Francis, instead of 800's and the occasional 1500s.

Nobody's saying that Laura trains exclusively like a 400m athlete.

There are quite a few places in the thread where some ARE arguing that she is "being trained like a sprinter" or for the 400.

Your personal experience is insightful into how she could be successful at both because you did them; however, running fast develops more speed than running longer does, imo. There are many examples of the barely 24.5 women who steadily drop their 200m and becomes a good/elite (sub-51) 400m runner -I would put Monica Hargrove and Mary Wineburg in that category- and there are far fewer who achieve that success the other way.

...I'd be willing to bet that at least a few 400m sprinters might actually improve their 400m performance with a little bit of 800m training under their belts. Based on each athlete's physical and physiological attributes, there are obviously different methods of training required to achieve the best end result for each particular athlete in a particular event...

Completely agree with that, but I think 800m training has a plateau for elite 400m times (Tamsyn Lewis - or whatever her last name is now); there is a point of diminshing returns for the strength if the speed isn't developed and I just personally believe - not saying it's not impossible, but ...- that the speed can't be developed by running on average 3-5 seconds off of your race pace.

[preston]

The problem is that you are beating a dead horse because you do not know how she is being trained -- if you knew explicitly you would have said so and you have not. So, why do you persist because she might not be trained the "right" way for her to do what you seem certain is best for her. Meanwhile, implicitly (at the very least) you think that those that know about her training and her capabilities and her interests and are much better at it than you or I are wrong. Arrogance is a word that comes to mind. Note that neither I nor many others are saying that she should be doing 'this'. I am just guessing that her most likely area to be really good is in the 800 and if her best event is the 400 it will likely be the case that she would not be at the top level.

Also, a weakness in your examples might be that they are where the coach is got no strong alternatives (i.e., someone as good a coach as they are but in the different specialty) whereas at Oregon we have the particular (and singular) case of the runner who does 800/4x400r being trained by the sprint coach and not be the very capable mid-distance coach.

Wrong! The article that all of you have cited as the smoking gun QUOTES Ms. Roesler as saying that she's training for the 800m. Blues, found it, why can't you? So, I know EXACTLY how she's being trained. I said you weren't reading; that you were just inciting...; that's trolling. Also (this is easy because our arguments are similar but different), you conflate my contention with jacksf's. My argument all along is that if she had been trained exclusively like a sprinter that she possibly could have been an elite 400m runner. She stated herself that she is being trained like an 800m runner (not a 400m runner). This makes me right and you incorrect. Or should I use arrogant?

[Dutra5]

Wrong! The article that all of you have cited as the smoking gun QUOTES Ms. Roesler as saying that she's training for the 800m. Blues, found it, why can't you? So, I know EXACTLY how she's being trained. I said you weren't reading; that you were just inciting...; that's trolling. Also (this is easy because our arguments are similar but different), you conflate my contention with jacksf's. My argument all along is that if she had been trained exclusively like a sprinter that she possibly could have been an elite 400m runner. She stated herself that she is being trained like an 800m runner (not a 400m runner). This makes me right and you incorrect. Or should I use arrogant?

You seem to have dropped the 1500m angle of your ever changing argument and that was the main reason I posted the article. Ms. Roesler appears to being trained as an 800m who can run a pretty quick leg on the 4x4. That is all.

[preston]

Wrong! The article that all of you have cited as the smoking gun QUOTES Ms. Roesler as saying that she's training for the 800m. Blues, found it, why can't you? So, I know EXACTLY how she's being trained. I said you weren't reading; that you were just inciting...; that's trolling. Also (this is easy because our arguments are similar but different), you conflate my contention with jacksf's. My argument all along is that if she had been trained exclusively like a sprinter that she possibly could have been an elite 400m runner. She stated herself that she is being trained like an 800m runner (not a 400m runner). This makes me right and you incorrect. Or should I use arrogant?

You seem to have dropped the 1500m angle of your ever changing argument and that was the main reason I posted the article. Ms. Roesler appears to being trained as an 800m who can run a pretty quick leg on the 4x4. That is all.

Read more closely and you will see that has been addressed. Any other agendas you trying to push?

[jazzcyclist]

Why can't Roesler follow the path of Jearl Miles and do them both?

[CookyMonzta]

Why can't Roesler follow the path of Jearl Miles and do them both?

That was my intention with a comment I posted 6 pages ago. When Laura graduates from Oregon, she ought to seek out Jearl (49.40/1:56.40) as her pro coach.

[preston]

I may be a little biased because I was an 800m runner who also ran the 4x4 anchor, but I'd be willing to bet that at least a few 400m sprinters might actually improve their 400m performance with a little bit of 800m training under their belts.

Blues, I figured that you might appreciate this being a former 800m runner who also ran the 4x4. Casimir Loxsom has a PB of 1:45.28

1. Florida 3:00.02
(WL, AL, CL) (5 C, NCAA; #5 school)
(***Dedric Dukes 46.6, ***Hugh Graham 44.3,
*Leonardo Seymore 45.31, *Tony McQuay 44.00);
2. USC 3:00.64
(Joey Hughes 45.6, **Josh Mance 44.9,
*Reggie Wyatt 45.30, Bryshon Nellum 44.82);
3. LSU 3:01.21
(Robert Simmons 46.0, ***Quincy Downing 46.1,
Ade Alleyne-Forte' 44.84, Riker Hylton' 44.23);
4. Penn State 3:01.58
(**Aaron Nadolsky 47.4, **Brandon Bennett-Green 44.8,
*Casimir Loxsom 45.15, **Brady Gehret 44.28);
5. Texas A&M 3:01.68
(**Carlyle Roudette 46.8, Joey Roberts 46.3,
Michael Preble 45.59, ***Deon Lendore' 44.53);
6. Arkansas 3:03.90
(*Marek Niit' 46.9, **Neil Braddy 45.7,
Ben Skidmore 46.03, *Akheem Gauntlett' 45.27);
7. George Mason 3:03.93
(Nick Vaughn, *George Empty,
Ja-Vell Bullard 47.12, *David Verburg 44.27);
8. Mississippi State 3:05.85
(*Tavaris Tate 46.3, Emanuel Mayers' 45.7,
*Daundre Barnaby 46.96, **James Harris 46.96).

[Dutra5]

Wrong! The article that all of you have cited as the smoking gun QUOTES Ms. Roesler as saying that she's training for the 800m. Blues, found it, why can't you? So, I know EXACTLY how she's being trained. I said you weren't reading; that you were just inciting...; that's trolling. Also (this is easy because our arguments are similar but different), you conflate my contention with jacksf's. My argument all along is that if she had been trained exclusively like a sprinter that she possibly could have been an elite 400m runner. She stated herself that she is being trained like an 800m runner (not a 400m runner). This makes me right and you incorrect. Or should I use arrogant?

You seem to have dropped the 1500m angle of your ever changing argument and that was the main reason I posted the article. Ms. Roesler appears to being trained as an 800m who can run a pretty quick leg on the 4x4. That is all.

Read more closely and you will see that has been addressed. Any other agendas you trying to push?

I'm glad you've faced the fact that your argument was ever changing.

[Dutra5]

Why can't Roesler follow the path of Jearl Miles and do them both?

Because she's really a 1500m type who really doesn't train that way....or....something like that.

[preston]

I'm glad you've faced the fact that your argument was ever changing.

My argument has been solid and consistent from the beginning; just because you don't recognize it is not my problem...kind of like your desperate need for attention.

[gh]

Preston: last warning. Keep ending your posts with snarky attacks and you're history. For good.

[Peter Michaelson]

Big PR in the 1500 (4:22.33) puts me in the "800 is her best event" camp for now.

[Master Po]

Big PR in the 1500 (4:22.33) puts me in the "800 is her best event" camp for now.

I would agree, but especially based on her 2:02.32 (and her 4x400 leg) at NCAA Ch last weekend. She had a very good indoor season, and this 4:22 suggests she is a good bit stronger than last year (when she ran 4:41 and 4:30 in March; 4:42 in March of 2011). It's a good progression. I hope she has an excellent outdoor season -- I am interested to see how much she might improve this year.

[tandfman]

Big PR in the 1500 (4:22.33) puts me in the "800 is her best event" camp for now.

I've always been in that camp. Still am.

[tandfman]

Me too. Today's race at Mt. SAC is further evidence.