USA's 29 Olympic medals • Moscow contenders

[tm71]

it is very unlikely the us medal count will go up next year. there are too many variable such as injuries, retirements, expected decline in some of the "older" athletes, not being able to make the team, events getting more competitive world wide etc etc. at least with the world championships the us has several wild cards (a total of 10 individual defending champions) but how many of those are still going to be medal contenders ? i think 25 medals is much more realistic and anything beyond that is a bonus.

[bushop]

'30 Medals Is Zero Improvement Over 20 Years'
"Clearly a strategic development program aimed at improving the status of these traditionally weak events is needed. Such a program would likely result in a total medal count around 40."

There are also more countries competing for medals. USATF definitely needs to do something about the field events, but I don't know what they can do.

Here's something USATF could do:
Persuade the High School Federation (or whatever it's called) have their athletes move from the junior weights (12 lb shots, etc) and lower hurdles (39" instead of 42") to the international weights and heights for their Junior and Senior years.
Stick with the lesser weights and heights while Frosh and Sophs, then move them EXCLUSIVELY to the international weights and heights the rest of the way!!
That way, there won't be that transition period in their first year of college where they're getting used to the heavier weight implements, etc.

Sorry for my dim-wittedness... are you serious or being sarcastic and saying the opposite what you believe should be done?

[aaronk]

'30 Medals Is Zero Improvement Over 20 Years'
"Clearly a strategic development program aimed at improving the status of these traditionally weak events is needed. Such a program would likely result in a total medal count around 40."

There are also more countries competing for medals. USATF definitely needs to do something about the field events, but I don't know what they can do.

Here's something USATF could do:
Persuade the High School Federation (or whatever it's called) have their athletes move from the junior weights (12 lb shots, etc) and lower hurdles (39" instead of 42") to the international weights and heights for their Junior and Senior years.
Stick with the lesser weights and heights while Frosh and Sophs, then move them EXCLUSIVELY to the international weights and heights the rest of the way!!
That way, there won't be that transition period in their first year of college where they're getting used to the heavier weight implements, etc.

Sorry for my dim-wittedness... are you serious or being sarcastic and saying the opposite what you believe should be done?

If you're asking if I'm serious (or sarcastic) about my suggestion that 11th and 12th graders exclusively throw intl weights and run over 42" hurdles, then I am TOTALLY serious!!

Are HS'ers wimps, sissy's, not capable of using those size implements, etc??
Hell no!!

Michael Carter threw 67-9 with the 16 pounder in 1979, along with his 81-3 1/2 12 pound throw.
Colin McCullough threw 219-7 with the intl hammer.

But it's not only the throws and hurdles that should be changed.
How about having 11th and 12th graders run the collegiate distances on the track, and especially in CC??

Can't they handle a 5K or 10K or a 3000SC (not a 2000SC) on the track, and an 8000 or 10000 in CC??
I've known 10 year olds who ran marathons!!

Get them used to that type of training, and those distances (weights, hurdle heights, etc), and you've got a much stronger collegiate class!!

Also, in the Dec and Hept, use intl wts and the higher hurdles, etc!!
It's ridiculous to have 2 or 3 different Dec records for HS'ers!!
And finally, imagine what Jacko Gill might have done if he'd thrown ONLY the 16 pounder!!

[bushop]

Are HS'ers wimps, sissy's, not capable of using those size implements, etc??
Hell no!!

Would you say the IAAF made mistake by going to lighter implements for the U18 girls?
For example, the U18 girls will be throwing the 3 kg shot put.

[aaronk]

Are HS'ers wimps, sissy's, not capable of using those size implements, etc??
Hell no!!

Would you say the IAAF made mistake by going to lighter implements for the U18 girls?
For example, the U18 girls will be throwing the 3 kg shot put.

Tell the truth, I'm NOT up on rules and regs in T&F....at ANY level!!
So I don't know about any new rules for under-18 girls.

But if such a rule has been entered on the books, then YES, I'm against it!!

Here's an analogy:

The 12 lb shot (and all "jr" wts and hurdle heights, etc) are like training wheels on an adult bicycle.
You might need to acclimate yourself to riding a bike....i.e. balancing, etc.
But eventually those training wheels are removed...and the kid is on his way to the Tour de France!

You want a solution to the lousy USA results in the throws??
I firmly believe using "jr" wts is a BIG reason why we're so bad there.

By the time a kid is 17 or 18, (usually their Junior or Senior year in high school), their bodies have developed to the point they can handle the heavier weights, the higher hurdles.

Look at some of those guys who throw 75 feet....or even just 70 or 72 feet....with the 12 pounder.....then take 3 or 4 or more years to get anywhere near 70 feet with the 16 pounder!!

If they started in the 11th grade using the 16 pounder exclusively....(throw out the training wheels!!)....you might see more 70 footers in their FIRST year of college....if not in their senior year of high school.

And yes, the same with the girls. Let them too throw away their training wheels after 10th grade!!

(EDIT) Thought of another analogy....but concerning the distances run by high schoolers on the track and cross country.

When I was in school, the Junior Varsity would run 660 yards instead of an 880, or 1320 yards instead of 1 mile.
In CC, we ran 1.5 miles instead of 2 or 3 miles!!
Only on the "Varsity" did we run the full distance!!

[bushop]

.

[bushop]

Letter from Doug Logan
August 12, 2012
"Main structural change was to professionalize high performance and begin to take power and responsibility of elite athlete development out of the hands of volunteer committees that were totally unaccountable to anyone."

[Alan Shank]

Are HS'ers wimps, sissy's, not capable of using those size implements, etc??
Hell no!!

Would you say the IAAF made mistake by going to lighter implements for the U18 girls?
For example, the U18 girls will be throwing the 3 kg shot put.

Tell the truth, I'm NOT up on rules and regs in T&F....at ANY level!!

That's pretty obvious.

You want a solution to the lousy USA results in the throws??
I firmly believe using "jr" wts is a BIG reason why we're so bad there.

Actually, aaronk, the whole world uses the junior implements for juniors, so why do other countries succeed?

Your examples of Michael Carter and Jacko Gill are not relevant to the mass of high school athletes.

What's your suggestion for the women's TJ? Maybe we should put a bed of hot coals between 42 and 48 feet from the takeoff board. That would get them off their asses! >:-)

Personally, I don't give a good god damn how many medals the US wins, but I would like to see more emphasis placed on the throwing events, especially the javelin, men and women. One of the reasons I don't agree with GH about the Oly Trials being the best meet of all is that we have several events where the fields are mediocre, compared to international ones.

I was surprised to see the 29 medals, but we actually got all the relays on the podium, which hasn't happened in a while (in 2007 we won them all, IIRC).
Cheers,
Alan Shank

[Powell]

'30 Medals Is Zero Improvement Over 20 Years'

That's a silly statement. The total number of medals available is roughly constant (OK, a few new events were introduced in the last 20 years, but it's not that much of a difference). Therefore, you can't have all countries win more and more medals over time. If we accept that the US was doing well 20 years ago, then we have to say they are still doing well today if they are still able to win the same number of medals. More than well, considering that the competition has arguably become stronger, with more and more countries developing their T&F programs and fighting for medals.

[bushop]

So says E Garry Hill...

Team USA's men and women were on elevators going opposite directions in London, says the editor.
"LONDON marked Olympic Games No. 10 for me (plus one Winter affair). I’ve always told people my favorite was Munich simply because it was my first. No longer.
London wins by a hair. Unparalleled large and involved crowds in the most hospitable of settings. Wow. Just wow."

[eldanielfire]