Tuariki wrote:Assuming no medals for GB and Germany in the marathon I think most people including most Germans would prefer GB's: 4 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze to Germany's 1 Gold, 4 silver, 3 bronze My British cousins did pretty well. But like every other country, Bahama's excepted perhaps, they didn't perform as well as they publicly stated they had hoped they would.
Okay... but do you retain van Commenee?
Well at least he gets his athletes entered into their events unlike NZ? I would never have hired a Dutchman to run British athletics in the first place.
UK Athletics urges Charles van Commenee not to quit 12 August 2012 "The head coach acknowledged that he has had his critics... and cracked a joke when asked if any athletes had put in telephone calls asking for him to stay. "Er, no. That should tell you something,"... "I am partially frustrated and I am partially embarrassed – especially when it comes to the relays ... and I've coached world and Olympic champions, but I've never had that emotion I had in that Golden Hour on that Super Saturday before, ever."
Placings table (from 1st to 8th position) taken from IAAF website for London looks like this: 4 1 1 3 3 2 2 3 Placings table Beijing was: 1 2 1 4 2 3 2 3
Two more medals but only one more top-8 position (19 vs. 18) which is a better indicator of the breadth of progress. I had expected more just from having home advantage and the hiring of top foreign coaches like Pfaff alone.
bushop wrote:UK Athletics urges Charles van Commenee not to quit 12 August 2012 "The head coach acknowledged that he has had his critics... and cracked a joke when asked if any athletes had put in telephone calls asking for him to stay. "Er, no. That should tell you something,"... "I am partially frustrated and I am partially embarrassed – especially when it comes to the relays ... and I've coached world and Olympic champions, but I've never had that emotion I had in that Golden Hour on that Super Saturday before, ever."
Maybe CVC should keep his mouth shut more often, and stop reeling off these stupid comments....
He's gone on record as saying he will quit if the UK don't get eight medals. But they got six...is that a failure? Would four silvers and four bronzes be better than a haul of six which includes four golds? If he'd any sense, his target would've been golds, instead of quantifying medals in one lump.
I thought it was a stupid statement then, and I think it's even stupider now that I can look back on it with hindsight. But CVC seems to have a penchant for saying idiotic things. Maybe it might be better for UK Athletics if he does stick to his stupid prediction....
I like that CVC came out and said what he wanted and put his name to it. Accountability for performance has been one of his core values as head coach and it would have been inappropriate had he not demanded the same from his own performance.
Denise Lewis thinks he'll go given the need for the post to commit to a 2017 five year plan when London host the Worlds. With this in mind I think he will go.
Michael Johnson commented on the BBC coverage that the culture change bought in by CVC was the most noticeable advance he'd made in his time as head coach and I think retaining that is what matters most.
London 2012 Olympics: Why van Commenee must stay August 12, 2012 "If he now resigns – as he always threatened to do if the GB team “failed” hit the eight medals target - it would be a travesty. Not to mention a major error for the sport as it heads towards Glasgow 2014, Rio 2016 and London 2017."
bushop wrote:London 2012 Olympics: Why van Commenee must stay August 12, 2012 "If he now resigns – as he always threatened to do if the GB team “failed” hit the eight medals target - it would be a travesty. Not to mention a major error for the sport as it heads towards Glasgow 2014, Rio 2016 and London 2017."
For Glasgow 2014 who does van Commenee represent given that there is no Great Britain team. England, Wales,Scotland and Northern Ireland all compete as individual countries?
Tuariki wrote:For Glasgow 2014 who does van Commenee represent given that there is no Great Britain team. England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all compete as individual countries?
Commonwealth Games 2010: Charles van Commenee backs Phillips Idowu 23 Sep 2010 With England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland competing separately in Delhi rather than in a Great Britain team, van Commenee has no formal role in India. But although he has faith in the people in charge of the various teams, he admitted he would not 'turn his back' on any athletes who sought his help."
bman wrote:It will be interesting to see if big names compete this time around given the more traditional end of july time table.
They will if they consider it doesn't hurt their chances at making dollars on the professional circuit. Winning a Commonwealth Games gold does nothing for your market value.
It would be nice to see the Commonwealth Games return to their former status, and I think it can happen with some co-operative scheduling. After all, the Commonwealth plays to almost 2 billion people, in 55 countries, and when the big guns show up, it's a hell of a track meet, much stronger than the Europeans in most events on the track.
PCSExponent wrote:It's a pet peeve of mine when the relay medals are put on the same pedestal as individual medals, and when stated are goals are to get X medals. A relay medal isn't - and will never be - equal to an ind. medal. Surely it is worth somewhere between 1/3 (1 entrance per nation vs. 3 athletes per nation) and 200/7,000,000,000 (rough estimate of number of nations vs. world population) of an individual medal ??? Get along with the plan and state your bloody goals as number of individual medals. On topic, the UK would do extremely well to walk away with 5 individual medal. ETA - or is it GBR? Another pet-peeve of mine
So should team medals in cycling not count, maybe the 8 in rowing is only worth 12.5% or individual rowers. Maybe no team sports should be played at all
Of for goodness sake, way to miss the point completely. We're talking about athletics here, in these posts, on the athletics forum. No one's saying get rid of hockey or water polo.
bman wrote:It will be interesting to see if big names compete this time around given the more traditional end of july time table.
They will if they consider it doesn't hurt their chances at making dollars on the professional circuit. Winning a Commonwealth Games gold does nothing for your market value.
It certainly does in UK meets
Louise Hazel won the CWG Hep in Delhi and saw her profile rise massively, to the point that she is one of the most recognisable members of our team with TV appearances, photos shoots and the face of Panosonic Olympic tv campaign.
Of course it helps that she's gorgeous with a great personality and competes in the same event as Jess but without that won there would be nothing to promote her with, CWG made her career.
PCSExponent wrote:It's a pet peeve of mine when the relay medals are put on the same pedestal as individual medals, and when stated are goals are to get X medals. A relay medal isn't - and will never be - equal to an ind. medal. Surely it is worth somewhere between 1/3 (1 entrance per nation vs. 3 athletes per nation) and 200/7,000,000,000 (rough estimate of number of nations vs. world population) of an individual medal ??? Get along with the plan and state your bloody goals as number of individual medals. On topic, the UK would do extremely well to walk away with 5 individual medal. ETA - or is it GBR? Another pet-peeve of mine
So should team medals in cycling not count, maybe the 8 in rowing is only worth 12.5% or individual rowers. Maybe no team sports should be played at all
Of for goodness sake, way to miss the point completely. We're talking about athletics here, in these posts, on the athletics forum. No one's saying get rid of hockey or water polo.
So team medals count in every other sport just not track ??
Explain to me the difference between the 4x4 and the team pursuit ? and why one should be celebrated and the other denigrated
"his" medal target? Let's see, Farah works in the U.S. with Salazar, Rutherford is talking about following Pfaff back across the Atlantic. Exactly what does VC get credit for? (not to pick on the guy, but the concept of "national coach" seems to me to be totally ludicrous in the professional era)
gh wrote:"his" medal target? Let's see, Farah works in the U.S. with Salazar, Rutherford is talking about following Pfaff back across the Atlantic. Exactly what does VC get credit for?
Tyler poised for UKA role September 12 2012 "Kevin Tyler, who has been UK Athletics' strategic head of coaching and development since 2008, has built a reputation as a "coach of coaches" and worked closely with van Commenee."
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Van Commenee's departure leaves a large and Special gap 12 September 2012 "The Dutchman's reasoning over the issue is unimpeachable. "If I hold athletes and coaches accountable every day, how could I work over the next four years if I am not held accountable myself?" van Commenee had asked – rhetorically – when he spoke to the media at the end of the London 2012 Olympics."
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Black appointed British performance director Sep 13, 2012 "Neil Black was appointed performance director of UK Athletics (UKA) on Thursday and among his first tasks will be finding a replacement for Charles van Commenee as Olympic head coach."
Hmmm...so if CVC was already planning to leave, it seems he was trying to set a target that he was convinced GB would not achieve. I'm not mourning his departure for a couple of reasons:
1) Insisting that athletes compete in the unimportant European Cup, or whatever that rubbish meet was called, instead of allowing them to prepare for the bigger prizes.
2) That distasteful, unnecessary and immature spat with Idowu.
shivfan wrote:Hmmm...so if CVC was already planning to leave, it seems he was trying to set a target that he was convinced GB would not achieve. I'm not mourning his departure for a couple of reasons:
1) Insisting that athletes compete in the unimportant European Cup, or whatever that rubbish meet was called, instead of allowing them to prepare for the bigger prizes.
2) That distasteful, unnecessary and immature spat with Idowu.
I'll give you the PI spat but athletes on funding should compete at euro cup or whatever it's called these days. Anyone who's season would be jeopardised by being asked to compete for their country once needs to look at their preparation !!
UK athletes would do well to compete more not less
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The problem with that European Cup is that if it fits into your training regime, and your plan to peak at the major Games, then fine, but if it doesn't, you shouldn't be railroaded into competing...that's what I think CVC did wrong.
I just can't see the JAAA telling Bolt that he has to run at the CAC Games....
shivfan wrote:The problem with that European Cup is that if it fits into your training regime, and your plan to peak at the major Games, then fine, but if it doesn't, you shouldn't be railroaded into competing...that's what I think CVC did wrong.
I just can't see the JAAA telling Bolt that he has to run at the CAC Games....
Well you should make it fit into your training regime. The best of our athletes should be able to compete at the EC without messing with their peak for major games, it's not as if they are being asked to peak twice, just compete once at the end of June, they can treat it as training if they want. UK athletes spend too much time training (not always effectively) and not enough time competing.
If our best don't turn out for EC there is no point us competing, we don't have the depth in most events to enter a B team and still be successful. Why should those that are funded be able to opt out of competing for their country so we have to rely on those without funding ? What sense does that make ?
shivfan wrote:Hmmm...so if CVC was already planning to leave, it seems he was trying to set a target that he was convinced GB would not achieve. I'm not mourning his departure for a couple of reasons:
1) Insisting that athletes compete in the unimportant European Cup, or whatever that rubbish meet was called, instead of allowing them to prepare for the bigger prizes.
2) That distasteful, unnecessary and immature spat with Idowu.
I'll give you the PI spat but athletes on funding should compete at euro cup or whatever it's called these days. Anyone who's season would be jeopardised by being asked to compete for their country once needs to look at their preparation !!
UK athletes would do well to compete more not less
"Anyone who's season" should read "anyone whose season"
Surely no one is mourning the departure of CVC who achieved nothing much apart from alienating a few athletes and burnishing his reputation for being Mr Hardman.
As has been pointed out CVC has not done anything special in the way of the elite and medal achievements, but was happy to agree spending a lot of money, by Brit coach standards, on a few foreign coaches, loads of funding to athletes, a lot of which was a total waste, the happy importation of a few imported "British" athletes which did not really work in London.
Under CVC's watch our sprint relay teams are currently a rather sad joke and our 4x400 are no cause for huzzahs. What did CVC achieve in the individual sprints, middle distances and frankly in the long distances , except for Farah, who really owes much to Salazar for the final 5 per cent.
A great elderly coach for our hurdler of the future is nowt much to do with CVC. I suppose one can praise him a little but heck the guy was taking home a nice pay cheque.
shivfan wrote:Hmmm...so if CVC was already planning to leave, it seems he was trying to set a target that he was convinced GB would not achieve. I'm not mourning his departure for a couple of reasons:
1) Insisting that athletes compete in the unimportant European Cup, or whatever that rubbish meet was called, instead of allowing them to prepare for the bigger prizes.
2) That distasteful, unnecessary and immature spat with Idowu.
I'll give you the PI spat but athletes on funding should compete at euro cup or whatever it's called these days. Anyone who's season would be jeopardised by being asked to compete for their country once needs to look at their preparation !!
UK athletes would do well to compete more not less
"Anyone who's season" should read "anyone whose season"
Surely no one is mourning the departure of CVC who achieved nothing much apart from alienating a few athletes and burnishing his reputation for being Mr Hardman.
As has been pointed out CVC has not done anything special in the way of the elite and medal achievements, but was happy to agree spending a lot of money, by Brit coach standards, on a few foreign coaches, loads of funding to athletes, a lot of which was a total waste, the happy importation of a few imported "British" athletes which did not really work in London.
Under CVC's watch our sprint relay teams are currently a rather sad joke and our 4x400 are no cause for huzzahs. What did CVC achieve in the individual sprints, middle distances and frankly in the long distances , except for Farah, who really owes much to Salazar for the final 5 per cent.
A great elderly coach for our hurdler of the future is nowt much to do with CVC. I suppose one can praise him a little but heck the guy was taking home a nice pay cheque.
Tatunfair to CVC. Almobody who has orkedr him ascredite him with changing the culture in UK athletics and turning it from one that looked for excuses to one that works for success. It doesn't all payoff at Elite level in a few years. However British athletes produced 11 personal bests in London, seven season's bests, two national records and one UK under-20 record. Quite a proud record compared to say swimming, under target and a bunch of losers trying to alternatively claim not getting a PB is somehow a good thing before saying the pressure was too much. CVC did a good job however that doesnt mean it's not the right time to move on.
by eldanielfire » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:19 pm ...changing the culture in UK athletics and turning it from one that looked for excuses to one that works for success. It doesn't all payoff at Elite level in a few years. However British athletes produced 11 personal bests in London, seven season's bests, two national records and one UK under-20 record.
100% correct.
There has, to my eyes, been a grass roots cultural shift from that of mediocrity and a sense of funding entitlement to one of personal responsibility, accountability, working hard and winning to succeed.
Unsurprisingly there are quite a number of disaffected athletes in the UK who think that youth and junior titles or one good PB should entitle them to a decade of funding irrespective of their failure to progress.
That type of thinking is a charter for failure and part of the reason why many of the past and present elite have had to circumvent the system in order to succeed.
I know this point has been mentioned in the general press; I'm not sure it's been made here, and I don't have time to scroll through this long thread to find out, so at the risk of being repetitive . . . .
It seems to me that CVC put himself in the postiion where he HAD to resign. He made a big issue of accountability, and then said publicly that if they didn't get 8 medals, he'd resign. After that, how could he not resign without undermining his credibility when it comes to the importance of accountability?
Whether he set that goal and made that statement in order to give him the excuse to do something he wanted to do anyway for personal reasons, I can't say. But I do think he deliberately set a high standard for himself and his team, and was always willing to live with the consequences of failing to meet that standard.
From afar, I did admire most of what he did during his tenure.
Also if he wanted to continue he would have to commit to at least after WC 2017 in London. I don't think he's want to be in the thankless job for another 5 years. Especially if he has other countries (Brazil ?) calling
