Some of the European records are $%#*&@ HARD! 19.72, 1:41:11, 2.42, 8.86A, 18.29, 6.14A, 9026, 86.74, 98.48, 74.08, 23.06 are incredible and most haven't been neared in an average of 20+ years, but 9.86, 44.33, 3:28.95, 2:06:36 and 47.37 are "breakable" (Schmid, 47.48; Mori, 47.54). 12.91 needs the right athlete but that athlete can be found in Europe if someone bothers to look. Hell, Ladji Doucoure ran 12.97 and he was a technical nightmare. Tony Jarrett 13.00; Florian Schwartoff 13.05; Stanislav Olijars 13.08; Falk Balzer, 13.10A. Latvia??? Latvia has 2 guys under 13.30 (Igor Kazanovs ran 13.26 at 30y/o! Even Ireland has a 13.30!!! Stop this talk about population and recognize that there is talent in Europe. TONS of it. Europeans have to stop conceding competitions to NACAC and Africa and go out and develop that talent. Oh, yeah, Europe includes the UK
^^^ yeah, just ignore that! Head clearly not with it when reading your post - apologies (Though one might point out that the records of NACAC are still not as good as Europe's in many events, so they're not progressing THAT much )
Still stand by the fact that I think you're expecting too much from the UK, based on society right now. As a fan of the sport, it's not great to see, but far too many other sports are now taking priority, coupled with a culture that has moved away from sport, irrespective of money being thrown at it.
On a tangent, but in keeping with something you said earlier, UK Sport (governing body of ALL sports in UK) has perhaps got the right idea in a way - whilst athletics medals are now harder to come by (even if every GBR record was being set today), a large number of medals won in Beijing were won in 'specialised/technical' sports, that places like East Africa and the smaller nations can't compete in - hence doing so well on the overall medal table.
There's definitely been a drive to get people that can run into triathlon, for example (Brownlee used to be a XC runner), so perhaps the 'bigger picture' is to drive medals - in a similar way to those wanting UK athletics to look to the technical events that have room to develop
Van Commenee attacks Idowu for tweeting GB team pull-out Saturday, 18 June 2011 "Asked whether he might still be in charge, Van Commenee, whose contract expires after the London Olympics, said: "Absolutely. It is certainly my intention to hit the target at the Games [a tally of eight medals], and then we can talk about me staying. But certainly it is my ambition. A lot of jobs depend on success or failure in 2012, so hopefully if we do well then everybody can carry on."
No relationship with 'liar' Van Commenee - Phillips Idowu Saturday, 18 June 2011 17:00 UK But the British triple jumper Phillips Idowu says he informed UK Athletics and Van Commenee's staff before informing his followers on the social networking site.
UK Athletics boss Van Commenee criticises Idowu tweet Friday, 17 June 2011 19:06 UK "These things are done personally, there are certain channels you have to follow," said Charles van Commenee. "I expect somebody with such a profile to follow these procedures."
Phillips Idowu wants apology from Charles van Commenee Thursday, 21 July 2011 18:11 UK "I haven't spoken to Charles since that incident and I have said that I won't speak to him until he publicly apologises. Until then I don't want anything to do with him."
Great British athletes set eight-medal Olympic target July 27, 2011 "Significantly, the Dutchman is demanding that one of those eight medals should be gold in a year's time, leaving his team in no doubt that they must aim for top prize."
72 wrote: Christie, Regis, Black,Thomas, Richardson,,Coe,Cram,, Elliott,Ovett, McKean,Jones, Spedding,,Rowland,Reitz,Jackson, Jarrett,Akabusi, Steve Smith,Dalton Grant,,Cooke, Holmes,Murray, McColgan, to name the main athletes.
When we have some male and female sprinters,400m runners, middle distance runners, currently the worst for many years, when Mo has 3 or 4 top liners sub 13.15/27.40?? to run against...talk to me of Golden Ages.
72 - I was also embarrassed by that editorial in AW about a Golden Age - utter nonsense and unecessary hype. But I really think you see the past through rose tinted spectacles. Looking at the list of athletes from the golden age, Thomas, Richardson, McKean and Jones never won global individual medals. From memory I think Reitz, Rowland, Jarrett, Spedding, Akabusi, Smith, Grant and Murray only won 1 each (please correct me if I'm wrong).
When have we ever had 4 or 5 people sub 13:15 at the same time? NEVER. Only 9 men have ever run that fast and two of them are currently competing for us. Only twice have two men broken 13:15 in the same year - Hamer and Denmark in 92 and Farah and Thompson in 2010.
When was the golden age for our distance runners? I think of great names like Bedford, Foster, McLeod, Jones, Moorcroft and Spedding. However, I also recall my Dad saying they weren't a patch on Pirie, ibbotson, Peters etc. Bedford bottled it at every major champs; Foster disapponted in Prague and Moscow; Moorcroft flopped in Athens; Jones blew it in Stuttgart; Spedding was seen as a journeyman who got lucky in 1984. All those assessments were of course unfair but I think it illustrates that the golden age was never as golden as people remember.
72 wrote: Christie, Regis, Black,Thomas, Richardson,,Coe,Cram,, Elliott,Ovett, McKean,Jones, Spedding,,Rowland,Reitz,Jackson, Jarrett,Akabusi, Steve Smith,Dalton Grant,,Cooke, Holmes,Murray, McColgan, to name the main athletes.
When we have some male and female sprinters,400m runners, middle distance runners, currently the worst for many years, when Mo has 3 or 4 top liners sub 13.15/27.40?? to run against...talk to me of Golden Ages.
From memory I think Reitz, Rowland, Jarrett, Spedding, Akabusi, Smith, Grant and Murray only won 1 each (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Jarret medalled in 91,93 and 95, Akabusi an 91 and 92, Smith 93 and 96, Grant never won a major champs medal.
It doesn't matter your point spot on anyway
Also holding up Tom Mckean as some kind of pinnacle of athletic achievement is laughable, he has precisely no medal at world level (unless we consider indoors) his major championship record was lamentable and there is no doubt if he was competing now 72 would be his biggest critic.
72 wrote: Christie, Regis, Black,Thomas, Richardson,,Coe,Cram,, Elliott,Ovett, McKean,Jones, Spedding,,Rowland,Reitz,Jackson, Jarrett,Akabusi, Steve Smith,Dalton Grant,,Cooke, Holmes,Murray, McColgan, to name the main athletes.
When we have some male and female sprinters,400m runners, middle distance runners, currently the worst for many years, when Mo has 3 or 4 top liners sub 13.15/27.40?? to run against...talk to me of Golden Ages.
From memory I think Reitz, Rowland, Jarrett, Spedding, Akabusi, Smith, Grant and Murray only won 1 each (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Jarret medalled in 91,93 and 95, Akabusi an 91 and 92, Smith 93 and 96, Grant never won a major
John G wrote: From memory I think Reitz, Rowland, Jarrett, Spedding, Akabusi, Smith, Grant and Murray only won 1 each (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Jarret medalled in 91,93 and 95, Akabusi an 91 and 92, Smith 93 and 96, Grant never won a major
Hey you're stats might not be up to scratch but your sentiment was 100% correct
mump boy wrote:Grant never won a major champs medal.
But he did get two 4th places at the worlds, and for one of those jumped 2.36!
Haven't you heard 4th place is nowhere ? and us UK fans have low expectations and no wonder we're losers if we think 4th is good etc etc etc
see the Uk trials thread
Exactly why I wanted to give it emphasis. He was great to watch even if he didn't win a medal. Anyone who thinks fourth shows a lack of effort is off their rocker.
Van Commenee looks for seven medals in Daegu Tuesday 9th August 2011 "I am looking to see an improvement from two years ago in Berlin, where we recorded six medals and 20 top eight finishes. It is important to remember there is work to do before London 2012 and Daegu is another stop on the journey to make our athletes run faster, jump higher and throw further. The aim in Daegu is to get more athletes within touching distance of the podium and these World Championships are ideal preparation for what the athletes will encounter next summer and beyond.”
by event: 100m • Jodie Williams 200m • Jodie Williams 400m • Christine Ohuruogu • Nicola Sanders • Martyn Rooney 800m • Jenny Meadows • Maz Okoro 1500m • Lisa Dobriskey • Hannah England • Stephanie Twell • Laura Weightman • Niall Brooks • Andy Baddeley 5k • Mo Farah 10k • Mo Farah marathon • Paula Radcliffe • Mara Yamauchi sprint hurdles • Tiffany Ofili 400m hurdles • Tasha Danvers • Perri Shakes-Drayton • Dai Greene 3k steeplechase • Tom Lancashire 4x100m relay • women • men 4x400m relay • women • men high jump • Isobel Pooley • Martyn Bernard pole vault • Holly Bleasedale long jump • Katarina Johnson-Thompson • Chris Tomlinson • Greg Rutherford triple jump • Nathan Douglas • Phillips Idowu shot put discus hammer javelin • Goldie Sayers multis • Louise Hazel • Jessica Ennis
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... or Kenya? Going for Gold - Kenya Ready to Take On World's Best 21 August 2011 "[head coach Peter Mathu] expects golden harvest with Athletics Kenya (AK) predicting at least nine gold medals by virtue of the good preparation the team had, besides sending the biggest ever squad to the World Championships."
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Fascinating to see the attempts to downgrade performances achieved by Brits in the past.
Every nonsense from dismissing our previous status and world level performances as probably on drugs, (which of our great middle and long distance guys, i wonder) to pointing out that our excellent Dalton Grant never won a medal in the OG/WC. So what?; his performances including 2.37 indoors in 94 were a damn site better than todays Brit athletes...oops, not of course our JamaicanBrit HJ freaky medallist!
McKean sneered at by some silly poster but did he not win the Euros in 1990 and ran sub 1.44 in 1989. He made stupid tactical errors but I am still awaiting a Euro Champ in this new Golden Age so beloved of the look-we-have- 7- new -national- records crap peddled by AW and a pile of posters on MBs.
We know what statistical experts you seem to consider you are but the facts are plain and nowt to do with China or Russia or populations. The change in British social attitudes, and the failure of British ambition, after all we revere mediocrities if they are nice people; the techno world we live in; the lure of soccer and other sports , to name some reasons that we have lost interest, largely, in emulating the performances in areas where we were traditionally strong.
It would be reasonable to assume that with the pampered professional lottery funded athletes of today, and the many millions of pounds poured into the elitist structure of British track and field , with all those specialist people like British Director of Endurance events (who incidentally thinks our present crop of mid and long distance athletes do not work hard enough and he has said so) plus better medical care, specialist centres of and bought in coaches from outside the Uk , we might have expected a better standard than we have achieved in many areas.
What have we achieved??? One disgraced sprinter of class, no 400m man of quality with an A , 800m quality... where; 1500m runners...yeah; one outstanding long distance runner; and a frequently injured back up guy followed by utter second or third rate athletes; no steeplechaser of even second rate; no guy behind Turner such as Jarrett who ONLY managed a world silver medal.. in 13.00 secs ( nothing to do with population or our decling influence blah, blah or the other arguments I have just read today just talent and hard work , I reckon.) Javelin, hammer, Shot put ... and dont start me on our women athletes.
We are still a harrier nation whatever the stuff about our discus improvemnts slavered over in the UK and we have largely given up in a number of events. Remember the stuff about we cannot expect to compete with Africans .. all somewhat exaggerated as the American 800/1500/5k and 10 k athletes have shown and Mo Farah very much so.
We cannot be world class at every thing I hear.... but we are not progreessing to some great forward push to a new Golden Age... we will NOT get 10 medals, not to mention 2 world records, that we achieved back in 1993; most of our funded athletes are in a nice comfort zone, thank you very much.
As for our publicly funded 49 fully able bodied athletes on the stupidly titled Podium athletes... 21 are not selected for the WC with a mixture of the eternally injured athletes and the loss of form athletes...over 40 % . Pretty good for all the money poured in to British track.!!!
If you missed out the Brit 80s andthe 90s... 9 European goldies in Split and Budapest? Thats real tough..... I was there and it was such fun..
All the PR crap in the world emanating from the UKA bunker will not create a new Golden anything.
72 wrote:McKean sneered at by some silly poster but did he not win the Euros in 1990 and ran sub 1.44 in 1989. He made stupid tactical errors but I am still awaiting a Euro Champ in this new Golden Age so beloved of the look-we-have- 7- new -national- records crap peddled by AW and a pile of posters on MBs................
If you missed out the Brit 80s andthe 90s... 9 European goldies in Split and Budapest? Thats real tough..... I was there and it was such fun..
.
Tom Mckean did win the Europeans in 1990 and ran 1,43.88, Michael Rimmer won a European Silver last year and ran 1.43.89 hardly the disaster your suggesting
We may have got 9 golds in Split but we only got one medal in the field and only 1 individual medal on the womens side so please don't pretend everything was so much better back then. There have always been massive gaps in the UK team and selective memory can't hide that. We got more medals in Barcelona last year.
Yes we had a great champs in 93 but
87 8 medals and 1 gold 88 7 medals and no golds 91 7 medals 1 individual gold 92 6 and 2 Gold 95 5 medals and 1 gold 96 6 medals and no gold
to compare
08 4 medals 1 gold 09 6 medals 2 golds
and your conversion to being a Mo fan his hilarious and o predictable. How about supporting athletes throughout their career and not just jumping on the bandwagon when they become ultra successful
some of your past post on Mo consist of
Postby 72 » 31 Aug 2009 17:08 And what was Mo Farah's excuse for a second rate performance; it was windy for all and if Solinskiy ran sub 7.40, and he has had as long a season as Farah, what is the excuse for Mo Farah ?.
No wonder he somehow did not appear in Zurich in a great 5K. He always runs in the wrong races and is bigged up in the UK as a world beater who trains like crazy. and def was on for a sub 13.00 5K. I am still waiting .. How many races has Farah had this summer.?.
We were promised by the PR dept of UKA, plus some fans in the UK , plus the man himself , the ''new all confident Mo Farah'' last winter .??
on a race in which he was pushed over
or this delight
by 72 » 04 Sep 2009 20:16 Congrats to Matt Tegenkamp . Two sub 13 minutes in a week.. Great stuff.
And they managed it without the assistance of UKA and their endurance Director, advisor, co-ordinator, etc
What does it say about the higly over rated Mo Farah with another poor effort, 13.22 and bits. All that high altitude training and avoiding Trials and refusing to represent GB at World Cross country. Perhaps next year he will stop over estimating himself and run a bit more on the country or whatever he needs to do
Now i need to get to bed, i'm off to Daegu and whether we win 1 or 10 medals i'll still have 'such fun'
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Coe praises changed mindset 25 Aug 2011 "Lord Coe believes UK Athletics head coach Charles van Commenee has changed the culture of the sport in Britain... Asked about the differences between the current squad and previous teams, Coe said: "Chalk and cheese. Absolutely chalk and cheese."
Phillips Idowu focuses on final but spat with GB head coach rumbles on 24 August 2011 "The triple jump final at the World Championships may be only nine days away, but the petty feud between Phillips Idowu and Great Britain's head coach Charles van Commenee is no closer to an end."
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fabulously amusing, Mump, to dredge up what someone said in 2009 about Mo; I suppose you never get it wrong, silly boy.!!... YOU knew, of course, that Farah would go on to much better things , but I would not waste my time dredging some of the childish rubbish posted by you on the AW Forum...( Sort of thing that the great Isabre used to do) Hope you enjoy Daegu, as I enjoyed our best ever in 1993( two WRs and 10 Medals) and that you bump into lots of famous athletes which I know you love above all... and don't forget to take your FLAG.
Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared... like say, comparing Bolt and Jesse Owens performances.? or better still.... Mump Boy's knowledge of Track and Field compared to Mel Watman / Peter Matthews.!!!
72 wrote:fabulously amusing, Mump, to dredge up what someone said in 2009 about Mo; I suppose you never get it wrong, silly boy.!!... YOU knew, of course, that Farah would go on to much better things , but I would not waste my time dredging some of the childish rubbish posted by you on the AW Forum...( Sort of thing that the great Isabre used to do) Hope you enjoy Daegu, as I enjoyed our best ever in 1993( two WRs and 10 Medals) and that you bump into lots of famous athletes which I know you love above all... and don't forget to take your FLAG.
Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared... like say, comparing Bolt and Jesse Owens performances.? or better still.... Mump Boy's knowledge of Track and Field compared to Mel Watman / Peter Matthews.!!!
Don't worry flag packed and accreditation waiting for us
72 wrote:Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared...
Right, i got this far. But is the implication the current team is crap or the current team is superior. What are the specific comparisons he is trying to make?
Will Daegu be Britain’s best ever? 25 August 2011 "... the American bible of the sport, Track & Field News, has put those four on top of its list of predictions." four gold picks: multis: Jessica Ennis 10K: Mo Farah 400m hurdler: Dai Greene triple jump: Phillips Idowu seven top-6 contenders: 1500m: Lisa Dobriskey 800m: Jenny Meadows long jump: Chris Tomlinson long jump: Greg Rutherford 400m hurdles: Perri Shakes-Drayton 100m hurdles: Tiffany Ofili-Porter javelin: Goldie Sayers
Charles van Commenee: 'This golden generation can put Cram, Ovett and Coe in shade' 26 August 2011 "The last time a Great British track-and-field team travelled to South Korea for a global event – the Seoul Olympics in 1988 – they did so with... Between them, they won eight medals – but all of them of the Crackerjack pencil, silver or bronze consolation variety." "The [Worlds] target is seven medals, including one gold," van Commenee said. "If we achieve that, I'll be a proud and happy man"
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72 wrote:Chalk and cheese... an old english saying meaning comparing two items that cannot validly be compared...
Right, i got this far. But is the implication the current team is crap or the current team is superior. What are the specific comparisons he is trying to make?
The implication isn't that one team is better than the other it is the preperation and attidute that is being compared favourably towards the current team
Track & Field News UK top-10 picks 800m: 4. Jenny Meadows 1:57.93 (’09) • 9th with a 1:59.07 1500m: 9. Lisa Dobriskey 3:59.50 (’09) • 11th in Heat 2 with a 4:12.70 n/a. Hannah England sprint hurdles: 5. Tiffany Porter 12.60 (’11) • 4th with a 12.63 400m hurdles: 6. Perri Shakes-Drayton 54.18 (’10) • 9th with a 55.07 4x100m: 5. Great Britain 43.50 (’11) • 13th in 43.95 (42.92 through to the final) 4x400m: 4. Great Britain 3:24.32 (’10) • 4th with a 3:23.63 (3:19.36 for the bronze) pole vault: 9. Holly Bleasdale 4.70m 15-05 (’11) • NH long jump: 9. Shara Proctor 6.81m 22-04¼ (’11) • 11th in Group B with a 6.34m (-0.4) javelin: 5. Goldie Sayers 65.75m 215-08 (’08) • 10th with a 58.18m heptathlon: 1. Jessica Ennis 6823 (’10)
5k: 2. Mo Farah 12:53.11 (’11) 10k: 1. Mo Farah 26:46.57 (’11) sprint hurdles: 6. Andy Turner 13.22 (’11) 400m hurdles: 1. Dai Greene 47.88 (’10) 10. Nathan Woodward 48.71 (’11) • 14th with a 49.57 4x100m: 5. Great Britain 38.41 (’10) • DNF 4x400m: 4. Great Britain 3:02.25 (’10) • 7th with a 3:01.16 long jump: 7. Chris Tomlinson 8.35m 27-04¾ (’11) • 11th with 7.87m 8. Greg Rutherford 8.30m 27-02¾ (’09) • 15th with 8.00m triple jump: 1. Phillips Idowu 17.81m 58-05¼ (’10) discus: 10. Brett Morse 66.06m 216-09 (’11) • 12th with a 62.69m
gold silver bronze
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UK athletes struggling to meet high expectations Tuesday, 30 August 2011 "At the half way mark the team have three. And with plenty of medal prospects due to compete between now and Sunday, UK Athletics insists there is no need to panic."
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bushop wrote:UK athletes struggling to meet high expectations "At the half way mark the team have three. And with plenty of medal prospects due to compete between now and Sunday, UK Athletics insists there is no need to panic."
Using a medal table half way through a meet to evaluate how we;; we're doing is ridiculous. There are only 4 countries with more medals than us so far and 6 with a single gold medal which would out them ahead of a country with 100 lesser medals.
Things ahven't gone to plan so far but there is more to come so lets leave this discussion to the end of the week.
What has been more disappointing is the lack of progress made by those below medal expectations, apart from Brett Morse i can't think of one athlete who has achieved above expectations
actually Andrew Osagie did good, as did Andy Turner (obv) and Yamile Aldama and that's it so far
To me the number of Medals is only one aspect of performances .
My daily note of national Top Eight performances tells me that after 45 % of the Champs are complete, 21 events, the Brits are on 24 placement points in equal 9th place with Cuba; the total achieved in Berlin was 81 points, and in Osaka 61 points. We are going to stuggle but not achieve I think what we achieved in Berlin.In addition, GB has 4 top eights so far well below the 20 they achieved in total in Brlin with 13 in Osaka.
I was fairly sure that despite all the UKA and media PR stuff, GB would struggle somewhat in the conditons and with a team who are not battle - hardened in many areas.
Just read that Rich Perelman in a detailed report on the Americans performances so far shows that they are well down on their USA Champs form right across the board. Long season for their team though.
The top 8 Placement points after 21 events are USA 102.. Russia 96( 26 points in Walks)...Kenya 79....China 46...Germany 44...Poland 35...Jamaica 34....Ethiopia 33... GB and Cuba...24
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I reckon Hannah England, hardly the most experienced athlete in the 1500m, will do well to come in the first six. She is still inconsistent in tactics and I prefer athletes with slightly smaller strides when the change of pace takes place.
(Though one might point out that the records of NACAC are still not as good as Europe's in many events, so they're not progressing THAT much 
