Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles


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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gibson » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:51 am

Conor Dary wrote:
mal wrote:

I'd stack them all at one end and hurdle the lot in one jump, then run like heck to the finish.


Yes, that would be one way. But I think it would be prudent to have a rule where they don't touch each other.


carl lewis would want to set them all at 101m 1 cm apart at the end and clear them all with a 9m long jump for 11 flat.
Last edited by gibson on Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby 18.99s » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:01 am

Marlow wrote:It would take one off-season.

If it were so easy, somebody already would have done it.

That surely must take more than a single off-season. Maybe an off-year, like the even-numbered year between Olympics.

There are no timing or mental sharpness issues either. I teach my hurdlers to alternate from Day 1 and they are adept at it in the 100/110 (before they can 3-step) and in the 300/400, where it is absolutely essential. If teens can do it at their top speed, elites can do it at theirs.

But are they switching back and forth between 4-stepping and 3-stepping in the same race?
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby Marlow » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:17 am

18.99s wrote:If it were so easy, somebody already would have done it.

It would NOT be easy, either physically or especially psychologically. It IS out of the box!
But are they switching back and forth between 4-stepping and 3-stepping in the same race?

It's not unusual for a kid to start with 3-steps but have to switch to 4 for the last few.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gibson » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:30 am

in my book switching from 3 steps to 2 should take several years. maybe asking 400m hurdlers who switch from 14 to 13 steps is not a good idea as we're talking a completely different stride length and distance.

the ideal candidate would be a 15 year old that is an outstanding sprinter, a bolt clone.
i'd train him for several years before putting him in a race.
just do the training and run the open 100 / 200 until the 2 step is down pat.
then shock the world.

the biggest "hurdle" is to find an elite athlete that somehow thinks that running 110h is better than the "easier", much better paying and prestigious 100m race.
and our man is going to need one of those great pioneer coaches that come along only every so often.

an out of the box idea (not again!) would be to have nike sponsor our ideal candidate.
if successful, there'd be a lot of press and excitement for the sport.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby Marlow » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:45 am

gibson wrote:an out of the box idea (not again!) would be to have nike sponsor our ideal candidate. if successful, there'd be a lot of press and excitement for the sport.

I hope it happens in my lifetime, 'but at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near' . . . :?
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gibson » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:31 am

more food for thought. data on 400m hurdlers.

http://www.hurdlesfirst.com/kevinyoung.htm
http://www.coachr.org/lha.htm
http://www.hurdlesfirst.com/stridepattern.htm
according to the articles...

12 step hurdling requires a stride of 2.84m.
kevin young ran 70 m with these strides before cutting down to 2.64m with the 13 step.
elite hurdlers clearance stride is reported to be 3.50m with poor hurdlers covering 4.5m.

can somebody tell me why it would be impossible for kevin young to run two strides-2.84m each and clear with 3.50 = 9.18m???
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby j-a-m » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:14 am

gibson wrote:in my book switching from 3 steps to 2 should take several years. maybe asking 400m hurdlers who switch from 14 to 13 steps is not a good idea as we're talking a completely different stride length and distance.

the ideal candidate would be a 15 year old that is an outstanding sprinter, a bolt clone.

Would a great TJer make sense as well?
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby ShaunP » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:39 pm

Daley Thompson once told me about the most impressive athletic feat he ever witnessed was David Hemery, when the Coach at BU in TWR 1980's and well into his 40's, demonstrated exactly this to him, by two-stepping the first three hurdles.
David was discussing with Daley that someday he could see some tall, basketball type, two-step between the hurdles and smash the world record. Daley thought that this was impossible and so David took him into the field house and demonstrated this feat to him! Daley would not have believed it if he had not witnessed it for himself.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gh » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:59 pm

best candidate ever perhaps Florian Schwarthoff?
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gibson » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:21 am

David Hemery-40 was discussing with Daley that someday he could see some tall, basketball type, two-step between the hurdles and smash the world record. Daley thought that this was impossible and so David took him into the field house and demonstrated this feat to him! Daley would not have believed it if he had not witnessed it for himself.


that one is out of left field.
still, you had to think someone tried it.

Florian_Schwarthoff a two step candidate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhwReX4K9FU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Schwarthoff

from yesteryear it would have to be 29 foot long jump, sub 20 200m sprinter carl lewis.
from today it has to be bolt,
instead of the long jump, why take on this 110h ?
imagine what kind of a buzz a 11.? result would create????
could be the short route to unanimous GOAT?
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby Marlow » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:42 am

gibson wrote:from yesteryear it would have to be 29 foot long jump, sub 20 200m sprinter carl lewis.

Carl, like his sister, was indeed a hurdler, early on. If Hemery in his 40s could do it, certainly CL could have!!
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby j-a-m » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:43 am

What about Christian Taylor?
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby 18.99s » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:49 pm

With his height and improving speed, maybe Parchment could be the man to make the 2-step work. A "between" year like 2014 would be a nice time to experiment with it.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gibson » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:48 pm

young hurdlers should start experimenting with the 2 step right off the get go. not wait until they've got super-set patterns.

a carl lewis or a johnathan edwards would have no trouble 2 stepping part of the way.
problem is, of course, it would be crazy tricky to go from 2 step to 3 and not break your neck (leg).
then again, a good athlete can learn to do more complicated things than 2- step. i'd say pole vault is more of a technical challenge for example.

probably a long or triple jumper that can run 10.1 100m would be the best candidate in practice. as top sprinters would not want to take the risk.

now the seeds are sown. some hurdles coach/s out there will indeed get the boys 2 stepping.
and a protegee sooner or later will do it right.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby Marlow » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:25 am

gibson wrote:young hurdlers should start experimenting with the 2 step right off the get go. not wait until they've got super-set patterns. A carl lewis or a johnathan edwards would have no trouble 2 stepping part of the way.

??!!
It's not like it's something you can just do with practice; you need to be able to sprint with Bolt's stride pattern, and he's the only one that can do that right now. Anyone else that tries it now would have to resort to bounding it, which is ungainly . . . but . . . if someone can successfully bound it, while alternating lead legs . . . the benefits would outweigh the detriments. The only way to significantly cut the WR is 2-stepping, so sooner or later, SOMEone will try.
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Re: Oliver mulls 2 stepping between the hurdles

Postby gibson » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:02 am

Marlow wrote:
gibson wrote:young hurdlers should start experimenting with the 2 step right off the get go. not wait until they've got super-set patterns. A carl lewis or a johnathan edwards would have no trouble 2 stepping part of the way.

??!!
It's not like it's something you can just do with practice; you need to be able to sprint with Bolt's stride pattern, and he's the only one that can do that right now. Anyone else that tries it now would have to resort to bounding it, which is ungainly . . . but . . . if someone can successfully bound it, while alternating lead legs . . . the benefits would outweigh the detriments. The only way to significantly cut the WR is 2-stepping, so sooner or later, SOMEone will try.


Marlow, yes, I'd say you're right.
Let me clarify. We are talking about starting with a 16 year old who's talented, say can run a 10.5 100m or less and long jump 24 feet plus, with a big upside potential. the two step at this point would be a fun thing to do in practice, figure out a way not to hurt yourself. in time the ugly bounding could convert into technique and lay to foundation.
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