The cheetah...........


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The cheetah...........

Postby Brutal » Sat May 17, 2003 6:34 am

....is by far the fastest cat while the greyhound is the champion sprinter as far as dogs go. Is it possible that blacks are just the fastest humans?

I'm saying the reason we rarely see fast white guys is that they simply aren't built for speed unlike their black counterparts. I see it as merely a "physical" thing having absolutely nothing to do with culture or enviornment.

If a rich rancher adopted 8 children 4 white and 4 black and raised them identical by the time they were 14 that black 4x1 would be smoking their white brothers. Basketball would be a joke as would football. The white kids take the swimming.

Not trying to be "cute" here I'm dead serious!

The differnce's between black and white athlete's was never more evident than when tall graceful Wilma Rudolph won the 1960 Rome 100 meters. She stood out like a sore thumb as those white girls behind her were all over the place looking anything but graceful.

It's not obvious that the Chinese are built different than people from Samoa? Of course it is so we have to agree humans are not all built alike, could those differences in the black race result in superior speed,agility and quickness?

Who are those nifty white running backs in the NFL anyway?

Watch the meet from Portland today and we will not see a white sprinter.....why?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Jefferson Buffalo » Sat May 17, 2003 6:53 am

Omigod! Entine's found his way to the T&FN Message Board and changed his screen name to Brutal.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Brutal » Sat May 17, 2003 7:03 am

translation

I think ya nailed it Brute!
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby bubba » Sat May 17, 2003 7:07 am

I'd like to see the stats on basketball where my gut feeling is that there has been a significant resurgence of "white" (whatever that means) players in the NBA in the last 5-7 years.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Brutal » Sat May 17, 2003 7:24 am

Magic
Dr.J
Kareem
Oscar Robertson
Elgin Baylor
Wilt
Russell
Kobe
Shaq
Iverson
Isaiah
Malone
Barkley
Michael
McGrady
Garnett
Duncan
Ewing
Robinson
Carter

.......and it goes on and on.

Your turn

Bird
Pistol Pete

and......
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby bubba » Sat May 17, 2003 7:40 am

I said stats not names. I'll see if I can dig up racial breakdowns of the NBA by 5 or 10 year chunks. Picking and choosing players across eras is stupid. I can go back to the 40, 50s, and much of the 60s and win that game.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby gh » Sat May 17, 2003 8:40 am

If there are indeed more whites in the NBA now than a few years ago, my guess is that if you elminated all the foreign-borns there'd be no change at all.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby bubba » Sat May 17, 2003 9:51 am

probably. but they're still white and thus their "physical" thing as Brutal describes it are the same. it's only their environment that is different.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Sat May 17, 2003 9:57 am

In the book,"The Super Athletes" by David Willoughby written in 1970 he gives a possible reason blacks have superior running speed.He states,"running speed is essentially the length
of one's stride multiplied by the number of strides per second.At any given stature, a blacks stride,in either sex, averages about 3 inches more than a white's.The longer the legs,relative to the stature, of blacks provide one explanation of why they make superior sprinters.In particular, the greater length in blacks of the lower leg in relation to the length of the thigh may be the reason.He also states,"women sprinters are capable of just as many strides pre second as men;however,their strides average only about 91 percent of the length on men's strides,and their sprinting time is consequently that much slower than men's."
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby gh » Sat May 17, 2003 10:23 am

Willoughby's book, while a fascinating read about feats of strength, is, to say the least, largely the work of a guy given to wild flights of fantasy in comparing people across the ages. Very little science involved. Take it with many huge grains of salt.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Sat May 17, 2003 10:45 am

>Willoughby's book, while a fascinating read about
>feats of strength, is, to say the least, largely
>the work of a guy given to wild flights of
>fantasy in comparing people across the ages. Very
>little science involved. Take it with many huge
>grains of salt.


Give me an example of why you say that.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Brutal » Sat May 17, 2003 10:53 am

Science has proven

1.blacks have heavier bones
2.less fatty tissue
3.more fast twitch muscle fiber
4.arms/legs are longer in relationship with their torso
5.tend to have thinner calves


There has never been a white.....

Tommie Smith
Steve Williams
John Carlos
Randy Moss
Steve Riddick
Mark Witherspoon
Reggie Jones
Terrell Owens
Quincy Watts
Linford Christie
Carl Lewis

That is an athlete 6-2 or taller with great speed.

There has never been a white......

Bo Jackson
Christine Okoye
Earl Campbell
Hershel Walker
Marcus Dupree
Jimmy Brown
Curtis Dickey
Hasley Crawford
Jerome Bettis
Homer Jones

.......that is a big fast athlete over 200 pounds.


What white running back compares to....

Barry Sanders
Marshall Faulk
OJ Simpson
Walter Payton
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Ahmad Green
Priest Holmes
Gale Sayers
Ollie Matson

........they just don't make um do they? Ok ok there was one his name was Hugh McElhenny way back in the 60's.

My point is there are tall/big fast elusive black athletes while we just don't see that with the white athlete. All the culture/enviornment in the world makes a guy 6-3 220 with 10.30 speed.

The word "fluid" also belongs here we just don't see white athletes with that "fluidity" we see in the black athlete.


And by the way I'm white.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby gh » Sat May 17, 2003 11:14 am

i wrote
>>Willoughby's book, while a fascinating read
>about
>feats of strength, is, to say the least,
>largely
>the work of a guy given to wild flights
>of
>fantasy in comparing people across the ages.
>Very
>little science involved. Take it with many
>huge
>grains of salt.>

"anonymous" asked
>Give me an example of
>why you say that.>

I don't think you need look any further than the R.P. Williams post from yesterday, in which it was cited that Willoughby reported with a straight face that somebody ran 100y in 9-flat and 100m in 9.8 a hundred years ago.
(And yes, I have read the book, although that was 25 years ago.)
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Sat May 17, 2003 11:36 am

>i wrote
>>Willoughby's book, while a fascinating
>read
>about
>feats of strength, is, to say the
>least,
>largely
>the work of a guy given to
>wild flights
>of
>fantasy in comparing people
>across the ages.
>Very
>little science
>involved. Take it with many
>huge
>grains of
>salt.>

"anonymous" asked
>Give me an
>example of
>why you say that.>

I don't think
>you need look any further than the R.P. Williams
>post from yesterday, in which it was cited that
>Willoughby reported with a straight face that
>somebody ran 100y in 9-flat and 100m in 9.8 a
>hundred years ago.
(And yes, I have read the
>book, although that was 25 years ago.)


I know thats far fetched but I thought he was supposely a respected historian.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Sat May 17, 2003 12:13 pm

Some of what Brutal says is true. Blacks have more of the fast twitch muscle fiber dedicated to speed, and release two to three times the level of certain enzymes during muscle contraction. Hence, the huge number of quick black athletes. On the other side, whites have more of the fast twitch muscle cells dedicated to strength, hence the overwhelming superiority of whites in events requiring strength and power. Blacks have denser bones through certain areas of the body, whites actually have denser bones than blacks in certain areas of the body (like the leg bones). Blacks tend to have a slightly narrower pelvis, an aid in sprinting, but a hinderance in lifting heavy weights. Whites have a deeper 'chest cavity' as well, meaning more area with more muscle in that region. People go by muscle definition and equate that with strength in blacks, when it is nothing more than body fat distributed differently than it is in whites. As a cooling mechanism, blacks and in fact other peoples like some S. American Indian tribes, carry their body fat concentrated in their gluteal region, while whites and E. Asians tend to have it more evenly distributed over their frames, having come from colder climates.

All this being said, (yes, I was actually involved in some tests on athletes from different racial groups - and Entine is disingenous on occasion - leaving out info that doesn't fit with what he wants to use to gain attention through controversy) there have been found white athletes with the make up to be sprinters during some testing, but they were far, far less in number than the percentage of blacks suited for sprinting. The US culture what it is, the media being what it is today, also contribute to a smaller number of whites involved at the top levels of certain activities than we would we see if they actually competed/tried out for certain sports at the rate blacks do.

This carries over to the old "White Men Can't Run" article bac in '92. Burfoot caught Hell because he predicted that black Africans would win every distance event. A Spaniard won the 1500, a German won the 5k, a Moroccan the 10k, a Korean won the marathon, Kenyans won the 800 and steeple. That's why he caught all the flack. Never say never.

Lost in all the hub bub over this and some other controversial articles etc. is the same reserchers also showed and believe that there are whites with the capabilities to be top flight distance runners, but their participation levels had been dropping by the mid 80's with the popularity of soccer soaring in Europe, among other things. The research also shows that it's possible that whites should have higher numbers or actually dominate in the 800/1500 due to a preponderance of physical traits advantageous to running those races.

Reserach also showed blacks to have higher levels of muscle coordination in certain areas, whites in others. Black sprinters tend to look much more smooth than whites, and when you look at whites swimming compared to blacks, the whites simply move with more coordination. People can say it's racist, but they are denying reality.

Sure, other factors are involved. An outstanding white HS football player at certain positions will almost never be offered a scholarship to a major school due to some stereotyping. Despite claims to the contrary, this does not happen with black athletes, witness the spectacle of some blacks being used as QB's, or left as starters, or receivng inordinate amounts of press that don't actually relate to their on the field performance.

There has been an influx, and it will increase, of white players into the NBA the last two years or so, but they are almost all from Europe. That says a lot about the mental state of whites in this country. Note that the US lost the World Champs in BB last year, again, and it took some screwy officiating in Sydney to allow our NBA guys to grab two narrow wins to hang on to the gold.

All in all, blacks have a higher percentage of individuals suited for certain athletic activities, like sprinting, long jumping, basketball. Whites have a higher percentage of individuals suited for excellence in swimming, weightlifting, etc. So what?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Sat May 17, 2003 12:17 pm

(excuse the typos in my post above, I was typing really fast, and should have proofread, but you get the gist)
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby OldMan by the Sea » Sat May 17, 2003 5:32 pm

Brutal has always been a flamer,,banned from several message boards..this is your turn now..he will get worse..and worse..then you will realize that all he wants is attention..he is ignorant
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby oldvaulter » Sat May 17, 2003 5:46 pm

I find OldMan's above remark offensive -- a much worse flame than anything I've seen from Brutal. I see no basis for this gratuitous insult.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Brutal » Sun May 18, 2003 4:44 am

Oldman

How about naming "all" those boards I've been banned from I'm dying to see this.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby tafnut » Sun May 18, 2003 9:14 am

Some of the posts in this thread have been deleted, presumably by gh. Since I was one of them, was mine offensive or were a whole group thrown out as pushing the thread in the 'wrong' direction?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby gh » Sun May 18, 2003 9:26 am

Indirectly by me, yes. I don't have the technical savvy to manipulate a Board, so I leave that up to our Internet Editor.

I asked him to specifically remove the initial "Rufus" post which made comments about blacks having lower IQs. "Rufus" said he was black, but since that was a screen name only and becuase that's a name that for years has been used by whites as generic derogatory term for black men I decided it should go.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 2:17 pm

Curious what others think of Jonathan Edwards.

Pure statistical anomaly?

Or does his success suggest that white sprinters and jumpers aren't as hopeless as we've come to think they are?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 2:33 pm

On the mens side it was it was a white west german and in the 200m it was an Italian...so much for your theory .
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby trackstar » Wed May 21, 2003 3:13 pm

While the question of why blacks disproportionately dominate many sports is something I would love to see scientifically analyzed, Brutal's comparison of cheetahs/cats to blacks/humans is completely dopey. A cheetah is a distinct species of cat. To my knowledge, cheetahs can't mate with other cats. Blacks are not a separate species of human, they are simply a group of humans that have developed some minor physical differences from other human populations. At the end of the day, we're all just human. And given the way our world is shrinking and our various populations are becoming increasingly mobile and less isolated, it's likely that race will become an obsolete concept in a couple of centuries. If we're going to analyze this question, could we please start from a more scientifically sound place than this?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Brutal » Thu May 22, 2003 6:03 am

The last time I checked the cheetah was just a cat.

My point was pretty obvious I thought, that being that humans like any other life form are different from one another. Could speed be one of those differences? I'm saying that yes it can. Not unlike the cheetah or the greyhound.

Tell me the avg Asia isn't smaller than the avg caucasian. So ya see there are differences for sure. Why not speed?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Thu May 22, 2003 6:53 am

We've already established that there are differences, but isn't that the essence of humanity, we accept and cherish our differences? As was said before, so what? Yao is Asian and he's pretty big.
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby Guest » Fri May 23, 2003 6:27 am

I think the "so what" is that white American sprinters have given up, which is too bad for the sport.

Just a personal opinion, but I think the great appeal of T&F is that, like soccer, it is a truly world competition. It draws from all countries, races, ethnicities.

It simply would be interesting to see a few white Americans running sub 10s, 20s, and 44s . . . which is what I think Bobby Morrow, David Sime and Mike Larabee could do with today's training and surfaces.

Isn't the NBA more interesting with Yao and the Euros? Isn't golf infinitely better off (and more respected as a sport) because of Woods?
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Re: The cheetah...........

Postby jsquire » Fri May 23, 2003 9:22 am

A few years back there was a book called "Taboo: Why Blacks Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It". The two statements about black athletes and sports were taken as axiomatic, but obviously WE'RE not afraid to talk about it.

Do black athletes really dominate sports? They dominate basketball (although less than a decade ago). If one group dominates baseball, it's Latin Americans. Blacks may currently have a few dominant athletes in golf and tennis, but they most certainly do not dominate the sports and never did. Blacks dominate some but by no means all positions in American football. And they don't dominate all the track and field events, but generally only the ones Americans dominate. Black athletes do not dominate ice hockey, soccer, cycling, auto racing, field hockey, badminton, table tennis, judo, yachting, wrestling, swimming, polo, or just about any of the sports that are popular outside of the USA. The vast majority of Olympic medal winners are not black.

The most accurate statement is that black Americans dominate American sports. There is one notable exception: Africans clearly dominate men's distance running (although a considerable portion of them, the north Africans, would be better described as Arabic than black). If you care to read my analysis of Kenyan, Ethiopian, and Finnish culture as it relates to their elite male distance runners, it will be published soon at www.trackshark.com.

I would add that it's generally recognized that high achievers in any competitive endeavor, sports or otherwise, combine exceptional natural abilities with exceptional work habits. Three simple examples are Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Bill Clinton. From this viewpoint, another way to question the phenomenon is "Why do black Americans with high achievement orientation overwhelmingly cast their lot in sports?"
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