Time Britain Had another Great Female Sprinter

[AthleticsInBritain]

Paul, I don't know if TBO was born in Brtain to Nigerian parents, or arrived here with them. I do know that she grew up and was educated here, so I think of her as 'home-grown' talent. The medals were: TBO, Germaine Mason, Phillips Idowu and Tasha D. So, two of Caribbean ancestry and two of West African ancestry.

I really, really couldn't give a flying proverbial about ancestry. This type of discussion really comes down to semantics and is easily lost in confusion. Some of the athletes of afro-caribbean descent are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation British born, whereas you also have others like Mo Farah who arrived here from Somalia before they were 10. What do you class as "home grown"? Both Germaine Mason and Tasha D do most of their training and live mostly outside the UK as I understand it.

You're probably asking the wrong person, as I see someone like Farah, who was trained and coached here all through his career as an athlete, as British as Paula Radcliffe. So even though he's not competing for the country of his birth, I see him as "home grown".

[eldrick]

. ..and yeah..thanks for also helping my point that GBR infact invests heavily in their T&F programme

if you'd done the most basic research & bothered to look in the archives, you wouda known that ~ $70 million has been pumped into athletics in past few years from lottery funding to aim for peking, but obviously research isn't your forte

if you believe this amount of money was pumped primarily towards a handful of ethnic sprinters then clearly you have no clue on the matter

[Jon]

I was mainly thinking of big O. As I said from a cursary glance, this the trend the world sees examine the proportion of medals won by GBR and see what percentage came from persons with JAM or NGR heritage.

TBO was born in Britain. Her parents and family might have originally come from Nigeria, but TBO was born here, raised here, educated here and trained here. Beyond my parents, all of my family came from Ireland, so I am just as British as TBO is.

If we're going to trace back the ancestry of British athletes and say that GBR's success is all thanks to JAM and NGR, the same could apply to pretty much every country. In fact, let's go the whole hog and trace everyone back to Africa and say thank you to them for EVERY country's T&F success!

[Paul Henry]

I was mainly thinking of big O. As I said from a cursary glance, this the trend the world sees examine the proportion of medals won by GBR and see what percentage came from persons with JAM or NGR heritage.

TBO was born in Britain. Her parents and family might have originally come from Nigeria, but TBO was born here, raised here, educated here and trained here. Beyond my parents, all of my family came from Ireland, so I am just as British as TBO is.

If we're going to trace back the ancestry of British athletes and say that GBR's success is all thanks to JAM and NGR, the same could apply to pretty much every country. In fact, let's go the whole hog and trace everyone back to Africa and say thank you to them for EVERY country's T&F success!

Jon I don't disagree with you. Let's get that off our chests so dont get emotional and eccentric.

(...but boy if only your point of view were carried right across the board in matters of diplomacy like when these same persons are guilty of crimes and then deported , to their "homelands" , or try to get into colleges but that is another issue for another board)

One needs not trace to find out that big O is nigerian in origin.

The point which doesn't change is that these athletes are children of pioneering to1st generation settlers (and dont limit your analysis of this to being historical). There is an apparent issue with a false premise held by coaches that athletes with these demographics are the way to go and pay less attention to the fact that there lies a strong performance potential in the genetic pool of those children juniors from the established demographies (anglo-saxons and children of the Vikings) from which we got persons like Sandy Gunnel (loved her) and Sir Coe the great.

The striking reality is that these are the talents being heralded as the front runners of Brtish T&F as per backing and the accomplishment, particularly in this year and last. It just seems that junior coaches salivate when they see a young JAM or NGR on the track team with a small bit of talent and turn their backs on the others. This might be a reason why the there might be a stall in the turnover of good talent...not being proberly scoped out.

[Paul Henry]

Jon remember I am not trying state who is more British than who. Lord knows that's not my aim. I am merely pointing out that I hope it isn't a case where athletes are interested and are not given the training and attention they need by the coaches. Imagine if a young stephan holm were not suppoted because he didn't look the part by his junior coach.

[Jaack]

I have read an awful lot of pointless posts in my time, but the above two take the biscuit.

[jjimbojames]

I have read an awful lot of pointless posts in my time, but the above two take the biscuit.

Ditto - coaches work with what they've got. Sometimes, the athletes are great and grow into world class (Katharine Merry, e.g.), others will be great juniors and leave it there (Vernicha James - though there's still time...)

Any suggestion that we pick and choose based on colour of skin / ancestry is ridiculous and borderline insane!

[paulthefan]

I have read an awful lot of pointless posts in my time, but the above two take the biscuit.

until yours came along.

[Mennisco]

I have read an awful lot of pointless posts in my time, but the above two take the biscuit.

Served hot with Devonshire cream and jam?

[Paul Henry]

So you are saying there is no such thing as "SCOUTING" and all coaches take what they have (BULLS@#T). You need to internalize that pointless commentary statement.

No one is saying anything about rasim Jack. So dont lead me down that alley. Notice I did use the example Holm being a short guy Vs the norm of taller guys. Its in an effort to state that coaches need to extend themselves and think outside the box.

The fact is athletics Britain had been there about 5-10 years ago, today there is a bit of a lull. The face of athletics in Britain (front runners) we are seeing is largely afro-carib or afro. There must be something other than luck of the draw that pushing this.

Afterall, one british poster highlighted that some girls drop out because of lack of support while Germaine is getting grants?

Lets make a deal: If u accept that your head was in the sand when u made that statement and u were only talking for yourself, I accept that mine was pointless.

[jjimbojames]

Paul - I think there is a difference between scouting and "salivating when they see a young JAM or NGR on the track team with a small bit of talent and turn their backs on the others" - I'm sure you're exaggerating to make the point, but I really don't think Junior coaches (in GBR at least - in JAM it would appear a different story!) can afford to be quite so choosy

From my experience, it's harder for girls maturing into adult athletics than boys, as their bodies can change more than boys - hence they may need more support than boys. Many (most) athletics events require women to do some sort of strength work that will see them bulking up, making them feel less feminine (unless they naturally have the body shape of say Allyson Felix or Nicola Sanders). Add to this the need to work harder at a time when they are studying harder (and, historically, girls are more work-conscious than their sport-loving male counterparts) and I think you see the reason for the dropout rates.

[Paul Henry]

Paul - I think there is a difference between scouting and "salivating when they see a young JAM or NGR on the track team with a small bit of talent and turn their backs on the others" - I'm sure you're exaggerating to make the point, but I really don't think Junior coaches (in GBR at least - in JAM it would appear a different story!) can afford to be quite so choosy

From my experience, it's harder for girls maturing into adult athletics than boys, as their bodies can change more than boys - hence they may need more support than boys. Many (most) athletics events require women to do some sort of strength work that will see them bulking up, making them feel less feminine (unless they naturally have the body shape of say Allyson Felix or Nicola Sanders). Add to this the need to work harder at a time when they are studying harder (and, historically, girls are more work-conscious than their sport-loving male counterparts) and I think you see the reason for the dropout rates.

WELL SAID MY MAN. I follow you 100%. Thank you for having insight and sense of balance.
As i said from where i sat I could easily get the impression I had. I even made that same point about the maturing body female sprinters (see my earlier posts) before I went off on the tangent of over representing. I just want guys linked to British track to give me some good reasons why we are not seeing signs of the next sandy gunnell and realize that junior girls take a lot of work like roses.

But I still think there are those odd coches out who once they see the young JAM or NGR with a little turnover its like an NCAA basketball scout seeing a 14yr. 6'9" kid for the first .

[Jon]

I just want guys linked to British track to give me some good reasons why we are not seeing signs of the next sandy gunnell

There wasn't a first "Sandy Gunnell", so maybe that's why we're not seeing the "next" one...

[Paul Henry]

I just want guys linked to British track to give me some good reasons why we are not seeing signs of the next sandy gunnell

There wasn't a first "Sandy Gunnell", so maybe that's why we're not seeing the "next" one...

You got me on that one. No comebacks in that accord.

[jjimbojames]

Might I suggest the reason we're not seeing another Sally ( ) Gunnell is because of her (and others) success. Strange, I know, but I can't help thinking GBR's response to the growing success of other countries is to blame. Instead of allowing young athletes to enjoy athletics for the sake of the sport - and then finding their 'best' event (take a look at the backgrounds of the vast majority of successful GBR women - e.g. Gunnell, Merry, Sotherton, even Sanderson and Whitbread and see where they started) - we're trying to find the next... and force them down a route - ultimately leading to athletes either being in the wrong event and so not progressing or not enjoying it, so dropping out.

In many cases, this may be their best event, but I am glad to see the likes of Meghan Beesley doing lots of events and the odd hep too. Multis keep people interested in the sport as they offer a variety that also allows kids to try something new. At my school, we've recently introduced a one-day pentathlon at school level against other schools, and it's hugely successful, as well as encouraging parents to watch, and is run as both a team and individual event.

[mump boy]

this discussion is ridic

it hadn't even crossed my mind that UK OG medallists were black !!!

and certainly never thought that it was because UK athletics has a policy of promoting black athletes over white ones !!!

it woud seem to me that anyone who comes up with such nonsense has ulterior motives

[Brettboy]

I dont think UKA promotes black athletes over white at all, that would be ridiculous, but there is a cultural belief that black = fast in the UK.

I think that the fact that non-whites make up around 10% of the UK population, yet all the athletics medalists were non white is interesting but nothing sensational. We're aware that some sports tend to have a certain demographic (rowing, swimming, sailing tend to me more middle class and 'white') but I think in athletics it goes down to actual events, so sprinters tend to be black, long distance runners and throwers tend to be white, and jumpers are pretty mixed - as in white and black, not 'mixed race'

However, the fact that our medalists were black is actually just incidental, because Sayers could so nearly have medalled (had the Russian not come out of nowhere...) a fully fit Radcliffe should have medalled and Sanders would have been in contention had she not got another early season injury.
Next year we may see all white medallists and no black medalists!

[mump boy]

I dont think UKA promotes black athletes over white at all, that would be ridiculous, but there is a cultural belief that black = fast in the UK.

I think that the fact that non-whites make up around 10% of the UK population, yet all the athletics medalists were non white is interesting but nothing sensational. We're aware that some sports tend to have a certain demographic (rowing, swimming, sailing tend to me more middle class and 'white') but I think in athletics it goes down to actual events, so sprinters tend to be black, long distance runners and throwers tend to be white, and jumpers are pretty mixed - as in white and black, not 'mixed race'

However, the fact that our medalists were black is actually just incidental, because Sayers could so nearly have medalled (had the Russian not come out of nowhere...) a fully fit Radcliffe should have medalled and Sanders would have been in contention had she not got another early season injury.
Next year we may see all white medallists and no black medalists!

only the most hyped british male sprinter right now is craig pickering despite simeon and tyrone being faster !!!

it could be true that all medallists next year would be white but TBO always medals

[AthleticsInBritain]

Simeon & Tyrone may be faster but Craig's way ahead on head-to-heads so far.

But I understand what point Paul Henry was groping towards and that Brettboy made - the stereotype pf the Caribbean sprinter/East African distance runner, and the point someone made on different thread about coaches subconsciously moving white people up to 400m and longer distances, just like they shove the big, fat, slow people (this is a gross generalisation) towards the throws.

Still, if you're fast and you win, you're in the team, regardless. Ability still counts for the most.

[Jon]

last month 14-year-old Jodie Williams ran 11.56 into a -1.2m/s wind! Jodie Williams also ran 7.45 for 60m this year, which is the second fastest by a British U15 athlete.

Jodie improved to 7.38 last weekend in her first competition of the year.

[DentyCracker]

As an aside Carrie Russell (seven days older than Asha Philip) seems to have got over her injury problems. (Her school coach did not know s*it and nearly destroyed the athlete.) She is in 6th form at the Queen's High School for girls (Grace Jackson's old school)and is with a good coach now.

[skiboo]

last month 14-year-old Jodie Williams ran 11.56 into a -1.2m/s wind! Jodie Williams also ran 7.45 for 60m this year, which is the second fastest by a British U15 athlete.

Jodie improved to 7.38 last weekend in her first competition of the year.

There was a time when an 18 year old American high school sprinter named Deandra Carney equalled Brenda Morehead's US record at 7.32. A 15 year old running 7.38 is phenomenal - could she win the World Youth Championships this year? She looks on track [sorry] to run 11.3x outdoors.

EDIT: Just noticed that one Sanya Richards also ran 7.38 as a 15 year old, in 2000 -

https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists ... epinw.html

[Jon]

A 15 year old running 7.38 is phenomenal - could she win the World Youth Championships this year? She looks on track [sorry] to run 11.3x outdoors.

EDIT: Just noticed that one Sanya Richards also ran 7.38 as a 15 year old, in 2000 -

https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists ... epinw.html

Of course it's very early days yet and you never know which other youngsters around the world will emerge, but I reckon Jodie will be in 11.40-11.45 form outdoors this year and that should be good enough to challenge for a medal in Sudtirol. Britain could even get two on the podium like last time if Shaunna Thompson opts for the 100m.

[lalala]

I don't know if we knew this or not, but Jeanette Kwayke is giving the indoor season a miss to concentrate on outdoors...

Absolutely can understand why and good on her for concentrating on the big prize, but such a shame- I wanted a British winner of a female sprint event just ONCE in my lifetime...!

[nevetsllim]

Donna Fraser posted a couple of decent times at the Birmingham Indoor Games - 23.38 and 53.32 for the 200 and 400.

[mump boy]

Donna Fraser posted a couple of decent times at the Birmingham Indoor Games - 23.38 and 53.32 for the 200 and 400.

times that put Lady D at at the top of the world where she belongs

[tandfman]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/fe ... nna-kessel

Headline:

Kwakye leads the charge of Britain's new generation.

The Olympic 100m finalist is an icon for a new group of British sprinters, who are poised to challenge for world honours

[scoe]

Just the tommy rot I expect from the Guardian.

What charge of British sprinters. If one of the four quoted Brit young women comes through it will be a minor miracle. Kwakye is an icon??? How ridiculous

A finalist in Beijing running 11.14 and a soft silver indoors and she is an icon. Perhaps they will make Montell Douglas an icon next.

A world record holder and Olympic and World Champ , now maybe thats an icon.!!

The trouble with jounalists is they are taught and almost obliged to write exaggerated stuff and we have at least one of these types on a Forum in UK called Athletics Weekly.

British sprinting at World level,not European, is nothing whatsoever to get too excited about. Lots of speculation, mind you. Only DC has the slightest consistent WC pedigree, as yet.

[lalala]

Whilst I agree the terminology is a bit over the top, to be fair, Kwakye's Olympic exploits WOULD have proved a massive inspiration for the girls- it was the first time an Olympic 100m final had been reached by a British girl since 1984 and Kwakye taking the WOrld Indoor silver showed she really has massive potential, which she is just beginning to live up to now. Having had no one really of medal winning class in the past 20 years, this must be tremendously exciting for the youngsters to look up to...

[japman]

Whilst I agree the terminology is a bit over the top, to be fair, Kwakye's Olympic exploits WOULD have proved a massive inspiration for the girls- it was the first time an Olympic 100m final had been reached by a British girl since 1984 and Kwakye taking the WOrld Indoor silver showed she really has massive potential, which she is just beginning to live up to now. Having had no one really of medal winning class in the past 20 years, this must be tremendously exciting for the youngsters to look up to...

I think that the exploits of Kwakye, Freeman, Nelson and not forgeting the big O( 400m is considered a sprint these days), must have been really up lifting for UK womens sprinting.
I've been anticipating for some times how UK female sprinters would fear in the near future and I'm glad to say that they're coming through earlier than expected.
For my money though, look out for a little young lady by the name of Hayley Jones. I saw her run via a stream at the Euro Juniors a couple of seasons ago in the heats and she looked GREAT!!
Right now I here that she is injured. Does anyone know if she has shaken the injury bug for the summer? She was Euro Jun champion that year over 200 m
and I think that she could be our next Kathy Cook (she can do the 1,2 and 4)

Watch out, the GB lady cat are sharpening their spikes!!

[nevetsllim]

Hayley Jones made a comeback this indoor year and I think she set a 60m PB.

[Jon]

A 15 year old running 7.38 is phenomenal - could she win the World Youth Championships this year? She looks on track [sorry] to run 11.3x outdoors.

EDIT: Just noticed that one Sanya Richards also ran 7.38 as a 15 year old, in 2000 -

https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists ... epinw.html

Of course it's very early days yet and you never know which other youngsters around the world will emerge, but I reckon Jodie will be in 11.40-11.45 form outdoors this year and that should be good enough to challenge for a medal in Sudtirol. Britain could even get two on the podium like last time if Shaunna Thompson opts for the 100m.

In her first ever attempt at a 400m, Jodie Williams set a UK indoor under-17 best (and age 15 best) of 54.95 last weekend. That's pretty decent speed endurance for someone with 7.38 foot speed.

[Brettboy]

Just noticed Laura Turner ran 11.97 (-3.2) this week.

If the selectors dare choose her over Emma Ania this season.....

[Matt]

Nothing personal against Laura, but the decision to pick her over Ania for the Beijing individual was shocking (which Turner then proved when exiting in her heat).....old ground I know, but I still think it was awful!

[mump boy]

Agreed