Unacceptable Behavior


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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby michael lewis » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:20 pm

"Look very deeply to try and find why it was that GH gave you the boot, and see if you wouldn't have done the same in his position with his rules.
Then, please consider apologizing to GH so you can maybe get back on the board and the rest of us can continue to enjoy your posts and insights as we always have."

Steve, very good advice. I feel that I need to apologize, not in order to get back on the board, but for my own integrity. What Gary and Ben do with the apology is their business, but it's not being made to get back on the board. That would be insincere, and frankly, as much as I love the board, life will go on for me and everyone else whether I'm on this board or not.

Gary and Ben, sincere apologies for putting the Fuchs post where it didn't belong. Apologies for not taking time to consider how much work you do on this board and for allowing my own personal resentments about other disagreements to motivate the placement of the post. In retrospect, I wish I had contacted you either by email privately, or perhaps started another thread. Just to let you know, I had received the message from Dr. Franke 2 weeks before and hadn't seen it until Oct.20, so I was not waiting for some opportune moment to pounce with it, just don't always check my email on this computer very regularly.

Apologies are also in order for some of the language I used, particularly "ignoramus" and "sleazeball". Regardless of what I may think about how we have differed on some issues, there are better ways to state differences than name-calling. I do not think you are an ignoramus, and I respect your knowledge of athletics. It is deep. I don't agree with how you have responded to my "opinions" nor with the accuracy of some of your statements, but it is your board, and I lost sight of that.

Sincerely,

Michael Lewis
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:20 pm

Wow. That was nice. Good on you. Sometimes we all need to take a few moments, to think about what we are writing, not to be too quick on the post key, and far quicker on the delete key.
I do enjoy most of the posts on the Board, and respect many of the opinions. They are heartfelt and generally form well supported arguments.

And again, thanks to the TFN group for providing this forum to us tracksters. Policing a board is no fun. Hats off to GH and BH.
ML, please don't pull your punches, just word them differently.
Everyone - read the latest Spivey post and go for a run!!!
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby oldvaulter » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:57 pm

Classy apology from Michael Lewis. My applause.

Now, will we see an equally classy apology from gh? That would complete the circle and close the case, I think.

If gh really did accuse Michael Lewis of making a bs and hearsay accusation about the Ruth Fuchs matter, then he owes Michael an apology because in fact Michael had solid and impressive evidence for his accusation, which was far from "hearsay".

So let's hear it from gh and close this matter amicably and responsibly.
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:34 pm

Rodney King had it right: "Can't we all just get along?"
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:24 am

Bravo Mr. Lewis for your apology. Way to step up.

Now lets get back to some healthy T&F debating.
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby gh » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:08 am

Sorry to be so long in getting back to this thread; please don't read anything into how long it took me to respond after Michael's post, other than my trying to say afloat in all the kaka that's inundating the track world these days at the same time as the World Rankings are being formulated.

Michael, I have no problem with being called "ignoramus" or "sleazeball." As they say, I've been called worse. But thanks for that pullback on your part.

One thing arising from all this is the need for everyone to realize that an editor's job--be it for print or for in heping to keep the board running smoothly--is largely one of journalistic triage: there's a limited amount of resources (time/space/energy) available, and explaining every move we make simply isn't feasible.

So my reaction to "controversial" material is likely to fall into one of three categories: simply yank it, caution that the direction must be changed, simply walk away from it.

This last is the toughest for people to understand I guess; when somebody simply drops out of the "debate." But this board is not a paid service where people can expect to get their money's worth; where after they have their 30 seconds I'm supposed to contribute 30 seconds and then it's there turn again, so on ad infinitum. If I don't feel I can bring anything more to a conversation (and there's no reason eith to yank the thread or say the thread should stop) then walking away unannounced is what I'll do.

As Ben noted earlier, there are about 25,000 posts on the board and he has read about 98% of them. I've probably read 125% of them, because I usually try to scan a whole thread (well, non-Webb ones :-) before I respond. So the details of our contretemps regarding Fuchs are lost in the mists of time.

As noted at the very top, if you feel there is more to be said on this topic, start again. I'll certainly stipulate that at one point she said something about having used drugs in her athletic days. I don't recall ever disputing that, which is pretty much common knowledge. And I'm well acquainted with the stance that Franke and his wife take on the whole subject. So where do you want to go from here.

garry
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby tafnut » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:51 am

And to put words in gh's mouth, ML, you're welcome to return, as this poster hopes you will.
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby Pego » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:52 am

All's well (or is it?). Michael, start a new thread so we know you are back home where you belong!
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby michael lewis » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:30 pm

Thanks Gary for the reply. I never doubted you guys were busy but 25,000 posts is a lot, and I would just prefer to leave the Fuchs thing at that. We have a different recollection of events and I don't wish to push the point anymore. May we leave it at that and just shake hands?
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby michael lewis » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:29 pm

"All's well (or is it?). Michael, start a new thread so we know you are back home where you belong!"

I'm still alive and well and not getting out of this life that easily I'm afraid :) Should I get a green light from Gary Hill I will consider myself officially reprieved.

Gary, after combing through material still on the board dating around Sept 20 I can see references I made to what I thought was disagreement from you re Fuchs. Something got yanked somewhere, a post where I started out saying something like this: "One thing I have learned on this board is I won't assume anything unless I have thoroughly researched it, regardless of how commonly known I may think it is, ...." (blah blah black sheep) Maybe I misunderstood something you said. If I did, I apologize further, I just honestly don't know without knowing exactly what was on the board, and frankly, does anyone really care anymore? I'm not perfect and I'm still learning, probably goes for the rest of the human race too.

So Happy Hallowe'en everyone and I will check in here next week sometime to see what's afloat.
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Re: Unacceptable Behavior

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:43 pm

and it would help if you spelled his name correctly - 'Garry' :-)
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