International comparisons - Junior female distance runners


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Postby bad hammy » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:33 pm

Jon wrote:And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?

It is quite clear that barring any one of a million things that can cut short a mid-distance career, especially for teenage girls, Hasay is certainly part of the future of US mid-distance running. On the other hand, seeing that the new w2-Mile record holder ran the second mile in 4:25, that may not mean that much on the world senior stage . . .
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International Comparisons - Junior Female Distance Runners

Postby rasb » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:02 pm

It's interesting how these things go. Glenda Reiser ran 4:06.. in the heats of the Munich Olympic Games in 1972. I think she was still short of her 18th birthday. That was the fastest she ever ran, so who knows what the future holds - it's fun to speculate of course, but nothing too serious. :)
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Postby gh » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:06 pm

Jon wrote:Can Hasay cut 14 seconds from her best within two years? And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?


And is that a future worth talking about? (devil's advocate question)
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International Comparisons - Junior Female Distance Runners

Postby rasb » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:40 pm

:D Good one, GH, you s**t disturber, you...
So, what about a handicap system?
Betting, of course, takes place and the odds will be the great equalizer.
If you(or an ancestor) is a Kalenjin, you are even odds. Rift Valley, but not
Kalenjin - 2/1, other Kenyans/Ethiopians - 3/1, and so on, until the 4 corners
of the Earth are reached. Could be a fun board-game :)
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Postby Jon » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:40 am

gh wrote:
Jon wrote:Can Hasay cut 14 seconds from her best within two years? And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?
And is that a future worth talking about? (devil's advocate question)
Ask Soboleva, Fomenko, Samitova, Tomashova et al.
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Postby doug091463 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:44 pm

another young girl to watch is almenesh defar who made her international debut yesterday in the indoor 3k at stuttgart and she ran 921, she had a serious back problem last year but seems to have overme that, i dont have her birthdate, but another poster said 1993 which would make her 14 or 15 and yes she is meseret defar's sister.
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Postby 26mi235 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:06 pm

doug091463 wrote:another young girl to watch is almenesh defar who made her international debut yesterday in the indoor 3k at stuttgart and she ran 921, she had a serious back problem last year but seems to have overme that, i dont have her birthdate, but another poster said 1993 which would make her 14 or 15 and yes she is meseret defar's sister.


To avoid the 'whisper' error, I posted that the story said that she was 15 and hence listed birth year of 1983 was probably a typo (instead of 1993), but I have nothing to go on other than the 15 year age in the story on the 3000.
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Postby pherekydes » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:21 am

Another one for consideration:

Ciara Mageean, born March 1992, recently won the Irish SENIOR indoor 1500m title, with 4:24.07. She also ran 9:39 for 3k last year.
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Postby Matt » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:39 am

What has happened to Emily Pidgeon this last 18 months? Yet another poor performance for her yesterday......
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby EPelle » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:11 am

Mary Cain Image
Born: 3rd May, 1996
Height: N/A
Weight: N/A
Honours: 2012 WJch 6th 1500m


800m
2011 - 2.06,44 (2.09,62i)
2012 - 2.03,34 (2.07,26i)

1500m
2010 - 4.42,80
2011 - 4.17,84 (4.36,30i)
2012 - 4.11.01 (4.24,25i)
2013 - (4.11,72i)

Mile
2010 - 4.59,30 (5.05,41i)
2011 - 4.46,91 (5.07,01i)
2012 - 4.39,28 (4.48,98i)
2013 - (4.28,25i)

3000m
2009 - 10.14,12
2010 - 10.16,08 (10.27,80i)
2011 - 9.28,60
2012 - 9.32,20 (9.47,97i)
2013 - (9.04,51i)

2-Mile
2013 - (9.38,68i)

Amongst those on the initial list, Bobocel (9.25,70 steeple), who competed in two Olympic Games and two world championships, has been a successful transferee into the senior ranks. She dropped down to 8.52,86 (3k indoors) this winter in Birmingham and won a DL steeple meeting last season, IIRC.
Last edited by EPelle on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:46 am

In the above list of Cain's times, her 2013 1500 best should be 4:11.72, the time she ran enroute to her 4:28.25 mile.
The 1500 was officially timed enroute!!
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby EPelle » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:01 am

Noted and edited. Only time will tell if she's able to jump ranks to the big time.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:26 am

aaronk wrote:In the above list of Cain's times, her 2013 1500 best should be 4:11.72, the time she ran enroute to her 4:28.25 mile.
The 1500 was officially timed enroute!!


This is about showing where she is not some official record book. In this application it is much more useful to have the 1500 equivalent than the en-route time. The reason is that mile times do not inform a subset of those using the board.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby lionelp1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:10 pm

One must crack a wry smile looking back on posts here in 2006 and 2007 with the copious references to Twell, Pidgeon, Purdue and one should be very wary of the over the top comments about Mary Cain so beloved of a certain poster.
Pidgeon will do nowt, Purdue the same more than likely and Twell will likley struggle for a long time to get back to where she was 5 years ago; injuries play a part maybe but too much training and too much pressure and too much gab about these wunderkinds; even the East Africans get blow outs with the 17/18/19 year olds not infrequently, I suspect.
As for Hasay time will tell what she may do but lets face it none of the young female athletes mentioned here or in the States is likely to be anywhere near the best East Africans juniors.

I am still sceptical about McCain and her future in the next few years, despite the hopes for her in years to come.
The only truly outstanding non- East african talent that springs to mind is Zola Budd.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:43 pm

g dibaba is 22 currently

m cain is 16 currently

at age 19 g dibaba best out door time for the mile was 4:06 outdoors

so cain has 3 more years to get from 4:11 to 4:06

i'd put g dibaba in the class of the best east africans

why are people sceptical with cain when she has great closing speed

2015 is when we can expect cain to approach a decent level

2013 is world youth

2014 is world junior

2015 will she be runninf 4:06 lige g dibaba at age 19

i think she will be and yet people will be skeptical but be on schedule in my view

other than sheert feeling, why be skeptical

she continues to improve from 4:17 as a frosh, to 4:11 as a soph, and indoor matches than4:11

i cam see 4:08 this year, and at world juniors do better say 4:06, a year beforee g dibaba did 4:06
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:58 pm

In the immortal words of Bob Dylan......

"Time will tell....
just who has fell....
and who's been left behind....

when you go your way.....
and I go mine!" :D
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:12 pm

look at jessica judd, she was 5th in the barcelona 1500

and she ran 4:09.93 year older than cain while cain did the 4:11 flat


a year before the 4:09 she did low 4:14, so basically 4 second improvement

and off that 4:07 is 4 second for cain
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:27 pm

Ciara Mageean ran 4:07 in 2011 at 19 and 4:10 in 2012 and 4:09 in 2010 so we need to see hwta she can do outdoors this year, she's one ofthe few who does ot have progress year to year
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:14 pm

looking at stef twell

at age 17 she did 4:12

then at age 18 i 2007 did 4:06 and got down to 4:02 in 2010

i still think people are saying cain is more decker than anyone

lets hope salazar can keep cain running 10 more years
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 pm

Faith Chepngetich Kipyegon who ran 4:03 in 2012

however 4:09 in 2011 at age 16

east african at lille ran th 4:09

i dont see much difference between her and cain


and the young ethiopian Gotytom Gebreslase

didnt cain beat her in boston 2 mile
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:00 am

before cain was zola budd,who ran a 2k wr at 18

elegant runner

here's the video of the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGSjpUIGbZs
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:03 pm

heres budd 4:06 1500 indoors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZ6qL_kQ7U at age 19
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:17 pm

budd shows she has a kick in moscow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlLlilMkmo8

she has some guts here, one lap to go and voila
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:43 pm

There's a 5 minute YouTube video (can't produce the link, but search for it!)...a 1992 interview with BOTH Budd and Slaney.....the interview about that "incident"!!
Fascinating!
Slaney still blamed Budd.
Budd refuses to say what she thinks of Mary.
The questioner TRIES to stir controversy...but Budd and Slaney remain as stoic as they can....with frozen smiles.....and pretty much don't play the questioner's game!!
Classic!!
(I'd never seen this before!!)
Look for it!!
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:46 pm

isaw that 5 minute interview it was in australia

here;s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny633tEuZJc

14:48 5k at 19 which is still 13 all time jynior
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:01 pm

aronnk the interview you saw was this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT0otatX6Wg

if cain is decker or budd, the interview sways me more towards budd as a person

oddly budd ran or was supposed to run comardes marathon, and salazar won the 1994 comrades race

that might have been albertos best distance
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:26 pm

budd on doing comrades

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNhLtgxE4o

the distance 30k for marathon and 60k for comrades is when the race starts

cain is a miler, budd 3k/5k, so to each their specialty

nice to see budd mention elena meyer

the golden age of south african track

heres the start of 2012 com rades

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmSDdaXclc
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:30 pm

and the finish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEWuBasQUBc

90k is a long way, and hurts
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:44 pm

and at 18 zola budd is wolrd xc champ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePkEbMY2Ta0

didn't kno w elana meyer and budd were the same age
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:08 pm

Great memories of the best Budd years!!
As a teen, there was none better....at least in the women's department!!
(The African Revolution was yet to occur then!!)

Times of 3:59.96, 4:17.57, 5:33.15, 8:28.83, and 14:48.07.
Times that ANY female would be happy with....in their CAREER!!

But what set Budd apart.....
and the reason I say she was then better than Mary Cain is right now....
is WHO she ran against!!

She didn't shy away from the real HUGE international stars of the mid-80's....
Slaney, Kristiansen, Puica, Murray, Sly et al!!
She ran in the BIG races....and WON...in record times!!

Cain is FANTASTIC.....but she has yet to race the SUPERSTARS of her events.
Dibaba IS a superstar....but she's the ONLY one Cain has run in the same race with.....so far!!

Of course, Mary is just getting started in her "pro" career....and while I give all due respect to Sheila Reid, Sarah Bowman Brown, Abbey D'Agostino, Trenier Moser et al.....they are (not yet!!) anywhere near the stature of a Kristiansen or Puica or Slaney at their best!!

I will, of course, be following Cain's OUTdoor races with the utmost anticipation!!
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:08 am

most people only know about the 1984 la incident and forget thewhole story or never were exposed to the story, the races are on the internet and once i ran into them, it was a pleasure to see them

the moscow 3k win was my favorite, although the 14:48 5k win over kristiansen showed how gutsy she was
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