International comparisons - Junior female distance runners


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Postby nevetsllim » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:19 pm

Running her 4th race in four days, Twell broke the national junior half-marathon record, with a time of 77:27.

http://www.ukathletics.net/press-centre ... rticle-11/
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Postby andyjgt » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:24 pm

A bit of news from Ukraine: Oleksandra Oliynyk (5 Jul 1993!), so still 13, won the recent U20 NC in Mykolaiv with 16:38.10! Is this a Euro age-13 best?

She ran 16:46.38 at the same champs last year, but on 28 July, so she was only just 13 then (no age-12 best!). She also has a best 3000 of 9:43.99 from the U18 NC last year.

I hope she doesn't fall victim to the current affliction of young Ukrainian girl distance runners to get a US college education (she's got plenty of years to go before that though!) It hasn't made them better athletes, and Ukraine doesn't have the depth of Russia or the UK to handle them not improving.
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Postby Jon » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:16 am

andyjgt wrote:A bit of news from Ukraine: Oleksandra Oliynyk (5 Jul 1993!), so still 13, won the recent U20 NC in Mykolaiv with 16:38.10! Is this a Euro age-13 best?
Yes, and by the slightest of margins.

Previous best was 16:38.51 by Latvia's Daniela Fetcere.
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Postby Jon » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:58 am

Steph Twell, the European junior cross country champion, has been mentioned briefly on this thread a couple times, but I’m bumping this to highlight her runs this summer season.

She has set PBs in all events:
800m – 2:06.15
1500m – 4:06.70
3000m – 8:53.34
5000m – 15:47.53
Road mile – 4:39
Half Mar – 77:27

Her times in the 1500m and 3000m are better than the US junior records (yet they only rank third on the UK all-time junior lists), and only one American junior has ever run faster than Twell’s 5000m time (we had two girls just later year run faster than 15:47!). Her half-marathon best would be a US junior record too, so you can imagine the kind of hype she’d be getting if she was USAnian.

And this is a girl who has only just turned 18 – she has another year left as a junior in which to potentially better these times!

She is entered in the women’s mile at the Brussels Golden League meeting. She looks to be on course to run around 4:30/4:35-ish.
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Postby tafnut » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:01 am

Jon wrote:Steph Twell . . .

Are we already 'over' Ms. Pidgeon? :o
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Postby Jon » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:13 am

tafnut wrote:
Jon wrote:Steph Twell . . .
Are we already 'over' Ms. Pidgeon? :o
Old news:
http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... 500#321500
:wink:
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Postby tafnut » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:26 am



Out with the old, in with the new. That 'ashheap' gotta be getting kinda large by now! :twisted:
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Postby James Fields » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:37 am

IAAF Rule 141 defines "Youth" as any athlete of 16 or 17 years on 31st December in the year of the competition. That language permits competition by an athlete age 15 during a summertime World Youth Championships, but becoming age 16 before the year ends.

However, a summary briefing, released during the IAAF Council meetings in August at Osaka, included a recommendation from the IAAF School and Youth Commission: Do not allow any athlete under [age] 16 to participate in the World Youth Championships.

I've not yet seen the text of approved changes to the "IAAF Competition Rules 2008 - 2009"
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Postby 26mi235 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:08 pm

There are several possibilities. One is that the definition of being 16 is the same as the competition year, not on the date of a meet. Another is that the age limit applies to the World Junior not World Youth meet (I got confused on this once in the past). Third, they just cut the population eligible for the meet by close to 25%.
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Postby Jon » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:28 am

Jon wrote:She is entered in the women’s mile at the Brussels Golden League meeting. She looks to be on course to run around 4:30/4:35-ish.
Twell ran 4:28.16!! It's a UK age-18 best (not quite a UK junior record - that belongs to Zola Budd at 4:17.57!) and is seven seconds faster than Polly Plumer's US junior record!
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:26 am

Jon wrote:
Jon wrote:She is entered in the women’s mile at the Brussels Golden League meeting. She looks to be on course to run around 4:30/4:35-ish.
Twell ran 4:28.16!! It's a UK age-18 best (not quite a UK junior record - that belongs to Zola Budd at 4:17.57!) and is seven seconds faster than Polly Plumer's US junior record!


This is a cut above Hasay, although she is still only 15 (for a few more days).
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Postby Jon » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:28 am

Can Hasay cut 14 seconds from her best within two years? And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:44 am

Jon wrote:Can Hasay cut 14 seconds from her best within two years? And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?


14 seconds implies 4:23 or so, as she has a 4:16.98 (US Juniors) and 4:17.2 (W Youth2nd) for two at about 4:37 (without being pulled along by seniors).
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Postby Jon » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 am

What does a 4:06.70 convert to? Britain has far fewer 'mile' races, so I'm not up on what all the conversions are.
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:08 am

"What does a 4:06.70 convert to? Britain has far fewer 'mile' races, so I'm not up on what all the conversions are."

4:26.44
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:33 pm

Jon wrote:And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?

It is quite clear that barring any one of a million things that can cut short a mid-distance career, especially for teenage girls, Hasay is certainly part of the future of US mid-distance running. On the other hand, seeing that the new w2-Mile record holder ran the second mile in 4:25, that may not mean that much on the world senior stage . . .
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International Comparisons - Junior Female Distance Runners

Postby rasb » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:02 pm

It's interesting how these things go. Glenda Reiser ran 4:06.. in the heats of the Munich Olympic Games in 1972. I think she was still short of her 18th birthday. That was the fastest she ever ran, so who knows what the future holds - it's fun to speculate of course, but nothing too serious. :)
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Postby gh » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:06 pm

Jon wrote:Can Hasay cut 14 seconds from her best within two years? And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?


And is that a future worth talking about? (devil's advocate question)
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International Comparisons - Junior Female Distance Runners

Postby rasb » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:40 pm

:D Good one, GH, you s**t disturber, you...
So, what about a handicap system?
Betting, of course, takes place and the odds will be the great equalizer.
If you(or an ancestor) is a Kalenjin, you are even odds. Rift Valley, but not
Kalenjin - 2/1, other Kenyans/Ethiopians - 3/1, and so on, until the 4 corners
of the Earth are reached. Could be a fun board-game :)
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Postby Jon » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:40 am

gh wrote:
Jon wrote:Can Hasay cut 14 seconds from her best within two years? And, more importantly, are Hasay & Twell the non-african future of women's middle-distance running?
And is that a future worth talking about? (devil's advocate question)
Ask Soboleva, Fomenko, Samitova, Tomashova et al.
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Postby doug091463 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:44 pm

another young girl to watch is almenesh defar who made her international debut yesterday in the indoor 3k at stuttgart and she ran 921, she had a serious back problem last year but seems to have overme that, i dont have her birthdate, but another poster said 1993 which would make her 14 or 15 and yes she is meseret defar's sister.
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Postby 26mi235 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:06 pm

doug091463 wrote:another young girl to watch is almenesh defar who made her international debut yesterday in the indoor 3k at stuttgart and she ran 921, she had a serious back problem last year but seems to have overme that, i dont have her birthdate, but another poster said 1993 which would make her 14 or 15 and yes she is meseret defar's sister.


To avoid the 'whisper' error, I posted that the story said that she was 15 and hence listed birth year of 1983 was probably a typo (instead of 1993), but I have nothing to go on other than the 15 year age in the story on the 3000.
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Postby pherekydes » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:21 am

Another one for consideration:

Ciara Mageean, born March 1992, recently won the Irish SENIOR indoor 1500m title, with 4:24.07. She also ran 9:39 for 3k last year.
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Postby Matt » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:39 am

What has happened to Emily Pidgeon this last 18 months? Yet another poor performance for her yesterday......
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby EPelle » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:11 am

Mary Cain Image
Born: 3rd May, 1996
Height: N/A
Weight: N/A
Honours: 2012 WJch 6th 1500m


800m
2011 - 2.06,44 (2.09,62i)
2012 - 2.03,34 (2.07,26i)

1500m
2010 - 4.42,80
2011 - 4.17,84 (4.36,30i)
2012 - 4.11.01 (4.24,25i)
2013 - (4.11,72i)

Mile
2010 - 4.59,30 (5.05,41i)
2011 - 4.46,91 (5.07,01i)
2012 - 4.39,28 (4.48,98i)
2013 - (4.28,25i)

3000m
2009 - 10.14,12
2010 - 10.16,08 (10.27,80i)
2011 - 9.28,60
2012 - 9.32,20 (9.47,97i)
2013 - (9.04,51i)

2-Mile
2013 - (9.38,68i)

Amongst those on the initial list, Bobocel (9.25,70 steeple), who competed in two Olympic Games and two world championships, has been a successful transferee into the senior ranks. She dropped down to 8.52,86 (3k indoors) this winter in Birmingham and won a DL steeple meeting last season, IIRC.
Last edited by EPelle on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:46 am

In the above list of Cain's times, her 2013 1500 best should be 4:11.72, the time she ran enroute to her 4:28.25 mile.
The 1500 was officially timed enroute!!
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby EPelle » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:01 am

Noted and edited. Only time will tell if she's able to jump ranks to the big time.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:26 am

aaronk wrote:In the above list of Cain's times, her 2013 1500 best should be 4:11.72, the time she ran enroute to her 4:28.25 mile.
The 1500 was officially timed enroute!!


This is about showing where she is not some official record book. In this application it is much more useful to have the 1500 equivalent than the en-route time. The reason is that mile times do not inform a subset of those using the board.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby lionelp1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:10 pm

One must crack a wry smile looking back on posts here in 2006 and 2007 with the copious references to Twell, Pidgeon, Purdue and one should be very wary of the over the top comments about Mary Cain so beloved of a certain poster.
Pidgeon will do nowt, Purdue the same more than likely and Twell will likley struggle for a long time to get back to where she was 5 years ago; injuries play a part maybe but too much training and too much pressure and too much gab about these wunderkinds; even the East Africans get blow outs with the 17/18/19 year olds not infrequently, I suspect.
As for Hasay time will tell what she may do but lets face it none of the young female athletes mentioned here or in the States is likely to be anywhere near the best East Africans juniors.

I am still sceptical about McCain and her future in the next few years, despite the hopes for her in years to come.
The only truly outstanding non- East african talent that springs to mind is Zola Budd.
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:43 pm

g dibaba is 22 currently

m cain is 16 currently

at age 19 g dibaba best out door time for the mile was 4:06 outdoors

so cain has 3 more years to get from 4:11 to 4:06

i'd put g dibaba in the class of the best east africans

why are people sceptical with cain when she has great closing speed

2015 is when we can expect cain to approach a decent level

2013 is world youth

2014 is world junior

2015 will she be runninf 4:06 lige g dibaba at age 19

i think she will be and yet people will be skeptical but be on schedule in my view

other than sheert feeling, why be skeptical

she continues to improve from 4:17 as a frosh, to 4:11 as a soph, and indoor matches than4:11

i cam see 4:08 this year, and at world juniors do better say 4:06, a year beforee g dibaba did 4:06
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:58 pm

In the immortal words of Bob Dylan......

"Time will tell....
just who has fell....
and who's been left behind....

when you go your way.....
and I go mine!" :D
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:12 pm

look at jessica judd, she was 5th in the barcelona 1500

and she ran 4:09.93 year older than cain while cain did the 4:11 flat


a year before the 4:09 she did low 4:14, so basically 4 second improvement

and off that 4:07 is 4 second for cain
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:27 pm

Ciara Mageean ran 4:07 in 2011 at 19 and 4:10 in 2012 and 4:09 in 2010 so we need to see hwta she can do outdoors this year, she's one ofthe few who does ot have progress year to year
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:14 pm

looking at stef twell

at age 17 she did 4:12

then at age 18 i 2007 did 4:06 and got down to 4:02 in 2010

i still think people are saying cain is more decker than anyone

lets hope salazar can keep cain running 10 more years
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 pm

Faith Chepngetich Kipyegon who ran 4:03 in 2012

however 4:09 in 2011 at age 16

east african at lille ran th 4:09

i dont see much difference between her and cain


and the young ethiopian Gotytom Gebreslase

didnt cain beat her in boston 2 mile
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:00 am

before cain was zola budd,who ran a 2k wr at 18

elegant runner

here's the video of the race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGSjpUIGbZs
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:03 pm

heres budd 4:06 1500 indoors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZ6qL_kQ7U at age 19
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:17 pm

budd shows she has a kick in moscow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlLlilMkmo8

she has some guts here, one lap to go and voila
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby aaronk » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:43 pm

There's a 5 minute YouTube video (can't produce the link, but search for it!)...a 1992 interview with BOTH Budd and Slaney.....the interview about that "incident"!!
Fascinating!
Slaney still blamed Budd.
Budd refuses to say what she thinks of Mary.
The questioner TRIES to stir controversy...but Budd and Slaney remain as stoic as they can....with frozen smiles.....and pretty much don't play the questioner's game!!
Classic!!
(I'd never seen this before!!)
Look for it!!
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Re: International comparisons - Junior female distance runne

Postby az2004 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:46 pm

isaw that 5 minute interview it was in australia

here;s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny633tEuZJc

14:48 5k at 19 which is still 13 all time jynior
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