Jon Drummond - an embarrassment


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Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:15 am

Jon Drummond actions were an embarrassment to himself, his family and the United States. Jon Drummond's track and field will no longer be defined by gold medals but only by his buffoon like behavior at the Olympics and now at the track meet this past weekend overseas.

Jon Drummond? Oh yes, isn't he the stupid idiot who layed down on the track and delayed the event for over 40 minutes? Jon Drummond? Oh say, isn't he the clown who acted like an airhead with four other team mates at the Olympics.

Drummond failed to pick up even one financial advertisment endorsement after the Olympics. He won't pick up any now either. He is too old to even compete again to try to regain any kind of credibility. What a waste of a man and his so-called track fame.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:26 am

"isn't he the stupid idiot who layed down on the track"

And you are the stupid idiot that can't even spell a third grade word like laid. And it's not a typo; you really think it's spelled that way. Do you see my point? Stop judging someone you know NOTHING about. You are the embarrassment here.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:28 am

And the word was supposed to be lay, the past tense of lie. But obviously you are not that well educated.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby michael lewis » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:34 am

Spelling bees aside, Drummond's behaviour will be what he's remembered for, unfortunately. C'est la vie!
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:53 am

When you don't agree with somebody emotionally but don't have any fact-based analytical argument to bring to bear, attack the spelling.

"Idiot Guide to Debate", page 72, paragraph 13.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:57 am

Addendum to Paragraph 13:

1. Attack the opposing debater personally. Keep the focus off the core issue.
2. Resort to the most off color language you can think of, to try to entice the opposing debator off of their factual analysis and into the same emotional response that you've already resorted to.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:24 am

Actually, I would have forgotten about it by now if idiots like you wouldn't keep on bitching
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:27 am

Addendum, paragraph 1.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:55 am

Randy, I am very surprised you totally missed the point of my post. I have come to expect a little more from you. It's about judging others, especially when you know nothing about their motivations. I was being ironic. My attack on him for his errors was part of my point. Get it now? Of course we were all disappointed in JD's behvior; that goes without saying. But when you feel the need to attack him in public, then I have a problem. I would have thought you 'got' that.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:03 am

To be honest, I like John Drummond. Jon's been doing muscle poses for years, but no one criticized until Sydney. Personally, I did NOT find fault with the Sydney incident. The relay team was just clowning around (yes, I know, it was with flags), but were just having fun after victory.

However, I do disagree with Jon's actions in Paris. Lying down on the track did hold up the runners. That's the only issue with Drummond that I have.

Other than Paris, I find no fault with Drummond's actions. Maybe the conservativism with us fans (too tight!) is the reason why no one watches the sport. Go figure! Peace.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:22 am

I agree with Dr. Brown completely. I'm not sure what meets some of you have been watching over the past few years, but Drummond basically acts a fool to one degree or another at every single meet in which he's involved. All the posing, posturing, yelling, and mugging have grown extremely tiresome, are disrespectful of other competitors, and in very poor taste. Any "charm" this act may have once had has worn off long long ago. But he continues to do this kind of stuff so consistently and insistently that it is almost sure to get out of hand sometimes, and it has done so, as both the most recent incident and the Sydney foolishness shows.

To say that we don't know anything about him and can't judge him is IMO more than a bit silly, since he is a public figure and has taken these actions in the public eye as a representative of our country. It isn't like he was having a fight with his family inside his home or something, he was acting like a total baby in the middle of an international event being watched by thousands in the stadium and millions on TV (although not us here in the U.S., of course -- thanks ESPN & USATF).

Now that Drummond is 34 and not 24, actions like these makes the so-called "clown prince of T&F" look like nothing much more than an overly attention-hungry immature just plain clown.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:30 am

You can blame HSI was some of this. If you ever hear their interviews, they are all about putting on a show and 'entertaining' the fans. They are encouraged to have personalities, because that plays better in the media. Who got ALL the press that day? Drummond. As they say in Hollywood, there's no such thing as BAD publicity. He WILL be invited to more meets than his times warrant, won't he? The fans in Paris were on HIS side, weren't they? Poor JD, he can bank (literally) on the fact that his antics got him attention. Yes, he didn't want to get kicked out of the WC - that wasn't in the plan - but he'll be fine. I bet he leads off the Oly 4x1 team next year.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:32 am

Dr. Brown and Al in NYC, well said.

Drummond's routine is a tired act and his antics have always far outweighed his actual running performance.

It is time for him to either:

a. get serious and actually try to do something with his few remaining years in track or

b. retire
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:53 am

As should you No Name.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:57 am

Addendum, paragraph 1.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:02 am

Dr. Brown and Al in NYC, NOT well said...

Yes, there will be people like you who choose to only remember the few isolated incidents without judging his career as a whole. But there will be far more people who will continue to look at his career for what it really is, I gurantee you. For some reason it seems as if too many of us Americans are on this "holier than thou" kick. But did you happen to see and hear the "fans" in the stands at the meet? Didn't look to me like they have all turned against him. And for someone who as you seem to think is so utterly disliked, he sure seems to continue to make the cut in a lot of big time meets. Seems like he is doing something right. The fact of the matter is a lot of people do like Drummond. They like his energy, they like his passion, they like the "show" he puts on for the fans. You may not, and you are entitled to your opinion. Fortunately for him, there are many who disagree with you.

I agree, a lot of the guys in HSI are over the top. But you have to admit, guys who run the 100m have to be a little bit over the edge. You may not think that there should be any entertainment aspect to what these guys do. But take a look at some of the other sports...why so many flashy passes and dunks in basketball etc.? Because fans like to see a show. The most technically sound and talented players are not the ones who always get the most recognition. Just because Drummond has a personality so vastly different from yours does not make him a disgrace.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:07 am

>guys who run the 100m have to be a little bit over the edge

Please provide supporting rationale.

Was Jesse Owens a little bit over the edge? If not, to what do you attribute his on-the-track success?
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:11 am

"As should you No Name. "

As usual, another catty remark from Say What? that adds nothing to the conversation.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:16 am

>The most technically sound and talented players are not the ones who always get the most recognition.

A scoreboard reading 9.82 is what gets my attention. Track & field does not award style points, and THAT is why I picked out this sport to like from an early age.

Trying to showboat like basketball and the foot-ball-touchdown Sharpie show do nothing to 'set T&F apart" from those other sports and show that it is something special.
There are already plenty of media outlets for that kind of show, why would the public want to see more of the same- a bunch of copycats?

But I acknowledge that that's what attracts ME to track & field; other people may be different, and audience needs DO change over decades, so I'm open minded on meet presentation.
For instance I'm not necessarily opposed to dimming the lights, having lasers and smoke go off and so forth, and long as it's well packaged and doesn't detract from the basic competition.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:30 am

Which was my point, No Name - your remark adding zero of value, so I replied in kind.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:46 am

"Which was my point, No Name - your remark adding zero of value, so I replied in kind. "

Correction: my remark had to do with the subject at hand. Your remark had to do with me. Try to stick to the subject if possible. Thanks.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:06 pm

US distance runners at these games are the real embarrassment.
Same goes for the UK distance runners as well.


Boooooooooooooooo
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:08 pm

>The most technically sound and talented players are not the ones who always get the most recognition.

What I meant was that people like Allen Johnson, who is arguably the best hurdler ever do not get the kind of attention as other, less talented athletes, due in part to their demeanor. They aren't captivating, they don't make you "take notice" as much as other athletes might. People may not like J.D., but he always gets noticed and he gets attention and meet promoters do like that. People say this about a lot of the athletes in HSI, but the truth of the matter is that these athletes are popular and I don't think you can deny that. Sometimes performances alone stand by themselves and that is enough. But other times it is the athlete -- their personality and the spark that they bring to the sport -- which sets them apart.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:28 pm

Not to beat the dead horse, No name, but you were criticizing him, and I was criticizing you. I fail to see the difference. Both were personal attacks on what we saw as bad behavior! Is he fair game and you are not? You are a 'public figure' by posting here. You don't seem to like it when I criticize you, do you? I wonder if there's a lesson here?
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:28 pm

Jon Drummond made a mistake. It's over... track will live. To those who are embarrassed by his actions: GET OVER IT. His actions didn't hurt any of you, or the USA. (The rest of the world will come up with much better reasons to hate the USA than this). The only person who is hurt by this is Jon Drummond. Only he will have to live with the embarrassment for the rest of his life.

At this point, this is a non-issue. The IAAF has suspended him for the remainder of the WC's. Drummond himself has said he will no longer compete this year. Next year is a new year. If he has lost your respect, give him a chance to re-earn it in 2004. If you decide that you can't give him the benefit of the doubt and promise to never support him again, then fine.

Let's redirect our attnetion and focus on the good things happening in this meet.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:36 pm

"Not to beat the dead horse, No name, but you were criticizing him, and I was criticizing you. I fail to see the difference. Both were personal attacks on what we saw as bad behavior! Is he fair game and you are not? You are a 'public figure' by posting here. You don't seem to like it when I criticize you, do you? I wonder if there's a lesson here?"

Alright Say What?, I'll spell it out for you:

The subject of THIS THREAD is JON DRUMMOND. Not ME.

Therefore, a post about JON DRUMMOND is pertinent. A post about ME is NOT. Does this make sense?

On a related note (since you brought it up), I don't care if you criticize me or not. You can criticize me all day long and start 8 different threads on this or other message boards in which you criticize me.

However, like I said I think we should try to stick to the subject of the thread; in this case, the subject of the thread is Jon Drummond.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:54 pm

come on...what are we golf or tennis...??? the only way to stop a race is staying on the track...when you are in this position, you pass judgment...
at the world indoors a british 200m guy broke out and ran anyway...the problem was resolved AFTER HE RAN...
you go jon...the fat old men rule makers could not even bend down to get on the starting line!!!
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:56 pm

>come on...what are we golf or tennis...??? the
>only way to stop a race is staying on the
>track...when you are in this position, you pass
>judgment...
at the world indoors a british 200m
>guy broke out and ran anyway...the problem was
>resolved AFTER HE RAN...
you go jon...the fat
>old men rule makers could not even bend down to
>get on the starting line!!!>

Exactly. What was Drummond's recourse?
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:59 pm

Rest assured that if somebody suddenly placed you on the IAAF rules committee, people all over the world would call you a fat old woman even if they'd never seen you, just because you wouldn't be able to please everybody!

Fat old men, greybeards, hoi poi, pooh-bahs, and so forth are easy labels which are fun to throw out, but which may have absolutely no basis in reality.

Find somebody who's actually on the rules committee and ask them how they operate and what their review procedures are. You MIGHT be amazed by what you find out.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:03 pm

"What was Drummond's recourse?"

Ummmm... waiting to hear the gun to sound before starting, maybe?
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Randy Treadway » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:07 pm

>Exactly. What was Drummond's recourse?

*Understand the proper appeal procedure within the Rules, being careful that you have the Rules straight (Dwight Stones had this down cold).
*Exercise that procedure.
*When that procedure has been exhausted, give it up and respectfully withdraw, after honestly thanking the officials for their consideration of your case. EVEN IF YOU THINK THEY MADE THE WRONG DECISION!
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:34 pm

No name, (sorry horse)
You are undermining yourself further every time you post. Your alias is perfect! Your name is not 'out there.' His is. Please now post your full name and address, so I can start a thread about how judgmental you are, and that you have no idea what it must have felt like to be in his position. If you can't do that, I guess I win by default.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:38 pm

pull up the iaaf site and read the bios on the illustrious rule makers! you might really be surprised....
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:32 am

"No name, (sorry horse)
You are undermining yourself further every time you post. Your alias is perfect! Your name is not 'out there.' His is. Please now post your full name and address, so I can start a thread about how judgmental you are, and that you have no idea what it must have felt like to be in his position. If you can't do that, I guess I win by default. "

Once again, I think you are missing the point.

The fact that my name is not 'out there' is irrelevant. This is a message board about TRACK AND FIELD, on which the posters discuss the current events in the sport.

Jon Drummond IS part of the current events in the sport. I am NOT. Moreover, THIS THREAD is about JON DRUMMOND.

That's the way the board works: people start threads about track and field subjects that interest them.

The other posters then weigh in on the subjects; in most cases, people have differing opinions (as is the case here). Why am I not allowed to be critical of Jon Drummond? Are you seriously saying that ANYONE would have resorted to behaving like a 3-year-old when placed in that position?

Additionally, why would we discuss me on this message board, given the fact that:

a. this board as a whole is about track and field and

b. this particular thread is about Jon Drummond

You still have not explained this to us. Please do so, it would be very helpful.

Thanks.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby tafnut » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:20 am

I'm outing myself. Say what? = tafnut (real name has already been posted several times). Please go read the thread I started about bashing people. MY POINT is that you wish to bash Jon Drummond, and you think that's OK. But fair is fair, so you should identify yourself as well. MY POINT was NEVER about JD, it was about people, like yourself, who have no problem criticizing specific individuals when they know NOTHING about what the athlete is going through. NO THREAD is ever about the thread itself, or even the original intent - it's about whatever is significant that we wish to talk about. I was addressing your need to criticize a man who so obviously is already down and out. What he did, he must bear the burden of himself. It DISserves us all to continue to heap abuse upon him.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby gm » Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:35 am

Here's the list of the folks who would have had to approve the rule in question:

IAAF Technical Committee

Chairman:
Jorge Salcedo (POR)

Members:
Gabriel Abad San Martin (ESP)
Filbert Bayi (TAN)
Erich Bremicker (GER)
Jorge Echezaretta (URU)
Vivian Gungaram (MRI)
Al Guy (IRL)
Victor Lopez (PUR)
Mahgoub Saeed Maghoub (SUD)
Jésus Molina Hernandez (CUB)
Robert S. Ouko (KEN)
Oleg Riakhovsky (RUS)
Anna Riccardi (ITA)
Cecil Smith (CAN)
P. Solomon (MAS)
Kari Wauhkonen (FIN)
Denis Wilson (AUS)

Honorary Life Chairman:
Carl-Gustav Tollemar (SWE)

I looked up all of them and found information on most. None of them really fall into the category of "fat old men" and I imagine Ms. Riccardi would be quite offended by being called that.

In fact, Louise, many of them are still quite fit and I bet they could bend over and move blocks several times in a row.

Name calling is a poor way to back up your point of view.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:03 am

"I'm outing myself. Say what? = tafnut (real name has already been posted several times). Please go read the thread I started about bashing people. MY POINT is that you wish to bash Jon Drummond, and you think that's OK. But fair is fair, so you should identify yourself as well. MY POINT was NEVER about JD, it was about people, like yourself, who have no problem criticizing specific individuals when they know NOTHING about what the athlete is going through. NO THREAD is ever about the thread itself, or even the original intent - it's about whatever is significant that we wish to talk about. I was addressing your need to criticize a man who so obviously is already down and out. What he did, he must bear the burden of himself. It DISserves us all to continue to heap abuse upon him."

OK, few things:

First, thanks for that post; I think the tone of this conversation is now improving from where it was yesterday.

You say that if I feel the need to criticize Drummond, I should identify myself. I'm not sure why I should feel the need to do so. There are many posts on various threads in this board that could be classified as criticisms. Should everybody who criticizes anyone be obligated to identify themselves? If you feel that's the case, I think there is a large number of people on every thread that you should single out.

Additionally, you talk about my need to criticize a man who is down and out. My criticisms are simply based on my perception of gentlemanly behavior. I have seen many cases of disqualifications in big meets in which the disqualified athletes did not behave like Drummond. Instead, they respectfully walked off the track, acknowledging that they had broken the rules (Linford Christie in 96 is a big exception to this). True, I don't know exactly what was going on in Drummond's head; how could I? However, I think I have the right to make observations that are based on comparisons of Drummond's behavior to that of other world-class athletes in similar situations.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby tafnut » Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:36 am

No name, (obviously, I have not been addressing just him)
Good enough. I hope that the tone of this board is always civil, and you HAVE been that. Thanks.
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:33 am

I have seen
>many cases of disqualifications in big meets in
>which the disqualified athletes did not behave
>like Drummond. Instead, they respectfully
>walked off the track, acknowledging that they
>had broken the rules (Linford Christie in 96 is
>a big exception to this). True, I don't know
>exactly what was going on in Drummond's head;
>how could I? However, I think I have the right
>to make observations that are based on
>comparisons of Drummond's behavior to that of
>other world-class athletes in similar
>situations.>

The difference with Drummond and Christie cases were that they vehemently did not feel they false started. If they had committed an obvious infraction they may have very well simply walked off the track.

I still say let the runner back in the blocks and leave it up to an after race appeal.

jd
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Re: Jon Drummond - an embarrassment

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:36 pm

I feel that we are all putting in our 2 cents, and really don't understand the real compassion for competing. Jon Drummond was told as a young child that he would be slow mentally, and probably never be able to walk. Now we know him as the "Clown Prince," and the man with the fastest reaction time in the world. Drummond wanted to race, and he wanted to win. Although, Drummond acted mentally younger than his age; our words and negative remarks can even compare to what this man has gone through in his life. He has conquered much more than a gold medal from the Olympics or Worlds. Lets all remember that!
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