El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be the ra


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El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be the ra

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:29 am

I find it interesting that Salah Hissou and El G are both entered in the 5k. They are both Moroccons obviously. Could Salah Hissou end up being a rabbit for El G? Wouldn't be surprised at all if it sets up that way. Also very interesting to see how, if at all, the Kenyans react to such a Moroccon tactic (if
it happens).
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:39 am

I'm sure they have contingency plans for it. So do the Ethiopians. They don't get to the top without thinking things through very carefully.

On the other hand, Hissou is (or was) a very good runner himself. It's no certainty that he'll sacrifice his own chances to help out someone else.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:46 am

>I find it interesting that Salah Hissou and El G
>are both entered in the 5k. They are both
>Moroccons obviously. Could Salah Hissou end up
>being a rabbit for El G? Wouldn't be surprised at
>all if it sets up that way. Also very interesting
>to see how, if at all, the Kenyans react to such
>a Moroccon tactic (if
it happens).

Could be very interesting. I would love to see it. I'm sure they already have the Kenyans and Ethiopians thinking.

I hope we see El G at the line. It would be unbeleiveable team tactics. Kenyans, Bekele/Geb, Hissou/El G WOW. It probably won't happen but what a race it would be!
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby miler manque » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:00 am

More interesting to me is whether someone will rabbit for El G in the 1500 (in collusion or not). Coe in a recent commentary believes El G is vulnerable if someone doesn't take the pace out for him (or if the tactic is foiled, as in Sydney 2000).
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:06 am

>More interesting to me is whether someone will
>rabbit for El G in the 1500 (in collusion or
>not). Coe in a recent commentary believes El G
>is vulnerable if someone doesn't take the pace
>out for him (or if the tactic is foiled, as in
>Sydney 2000).


Wow, what an insight from Coe. Of course he's vulnerable. Everyone knows that. The trick is to stay within two strides of him going into that last 100 after he blazes the previous 400.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby miler manque » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:37 am

You make it sound like it's easy to start kicking 500 meters out, off a 1:51 800 . . . Lagat's been trying and failing to follow El G in doing that for quite a while --
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:48 am

>You make it sound like it's easy to start kicking
>500 meters out, off a 1:51 800 . . . Lagat's been
>trying and failing to follow El G in doing that
>for quite a while --


You misunderstood. I think it will be very difficult. El G. is the man to beat. The Kenyans know that but El G is just so strong its going to take a phenomenal effort to stay with him in the last 5. I don't think anyone can match his final long drive off a solid first 800. The only chance the Kenyans may have is if the pace is very slow for the first 800. The El G. may have to push it from further out which will be a more difficult task.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby miler manque » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:51 am

10-4, with his abilities, El G is not very vulnerable, but if he's going to be beaten, it will be by someone capable of going with him (which if memory serves is what happened in Sydney, he never got away).
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:54 am

I think he prefers a fast paced race because of the incident in the 1996 olympics where he fell, not because he isn't able to sit and kick.

I have a feeling someone else (non-moroccon) is going to take up pace making duties in the 5k only because they're probably all scared of El G's mile speed. Look for someone similar to Sammy Kipketer(who took out the 2001 WC 5k in 4:04 pace!) to take it out hard in hopes of drawing out the kicks from El G/Chebii. Just my prediction, who knows what will really happen.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby miler manque » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:00 am

How much harder can anyone go than what El G normally does? I think he's strongest off the fastest pace; no one can maintain that 1:50 half pace as long as El G can. But though he has great speed, others do, too, and might kick past him off a slower pace.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:28 am

I heard that there was some communication failure between El G & Yousef Baba in the Sydney finals. Apparently, he went too fast in the first 400 (like 54) and then Baba slowed down to 60s for the second 400.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:41 am

Here is some info on Hissou:

"Salah Hissou first came to international notice in 1991, when he won the 5000m at the Moroccan national championships. His best time that year, 13min 37.40sec, was the fourth fastest 5000m recorded by a junior in 1991. He had two relatively lean years in 1992 and 1993, but 1994 saw an incredible improvement in his performances, when he lowered his 5000m personal best to 13min 04.93sec, and his 10000m personal best to 27min 21.75sec. In the 10000m final at the 1995 World Championships in Gothenburg on 8 August, Hissou led at the bell, but was outsprinted in the final lap and finished a disappointing fourth. On 25 August, in Brussels, he clocked 27min 09.30sec for 10000m, breaking the Moroccan national record in the process. In 1996, he broke 13 minutes for 5000m on three occasions, and his fastest time of 12min 50.80sec, set at Rome on 5 June, was the second fastest 5000m ever run. Despite these credentials, Hissou elected to only contest the 10000m at the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta on 29 July, where he won the bronze medal (see photo above) behind Ethiopian Haile Gebrselassie and Kenyan Paul Tergat in a time of 27min 24.67sec. However, Salah ran a very different 10000m race in Brussels less than four weeks later on 23 August. After following pacemakers for the first 7000m, Hissou ran away from the field, winning easily in a time of 26min 38.08sec, and breaking Gebrselassie's world record by over 5 seconds. However, this world record didn't make Hissou any short priced favourite for the 10000m at the 1997 World Championships in Athens, as Gebrselassie regained the world record in July 1997. At Athens, on August 6, Hissou again finished third behind Gebrselassie and Tergat, duplicating their finishing order in the previous yearís Olympic final." (Ron Casey)

El G has a powerful ally.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:59 pm

el g has a powerful ally?
with times of 12.50 and 26.38 he may not be el g's ally he may be his and everyone else in the 5k's competitor.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:55 am

I agree
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:22 am

There is no doubt that El G is a good runner, but he only way he can be great in my mind (I'm only speaking for myself) is if he does need rabbits to run fast times. That goes for all runners. It kinda takes away from the actual race part of the race. El G needs to go out there and just push the pace himself, well i dunno if he could do it the same as with a rabbit, but beating the other guy is what track is all about, not chasing a rabbit in order to beat a time (and in the process beating the other guy). Maybe it was a mistake for him to rely on this tactic all the time, because it sure hurt him in the olympics.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:03 am

>10-4, with his abilities, El G is not very
>vulnerable, but if he's going to be beaten, it
>will be by someone capable of going with him
>(which if memory serves is what happened in
>Sydney, he never got away).

Right. He didn't get that fast first half, so the Kenyans were able to hang with him. That race also showed how much Europe has slid as a force, as even with a slow first half, the Europeans dropped completely off the radar in that race. Can you imagine Coe or Cram or even Ryun dropping off after that slow first half?
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 22, 2003 3:25 pm

El G won't need any help in losing to the great Bekele.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby kritter » Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:22 pm

Hissou is a shadow of his previous self, and lacks a finishing kick. He could help pace El G, since he lacks experience at this distance. El G is the man in the field who will benefit most from a slow pace. After that 10k, it is hard to envision the 5k pace going slow! If it is cool, and Geb and Bekele run it may go 12:40?
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:20 pm

I really hope geb joins the 5km feild.
It would just make it the greatest 5km for centuries.
He and Bekele have already done a sub 13.00 5km this week.
Will they want to do another.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:25 am

As a previous poster noted, Hissou is a shadow of his former self. He failed to make the 5k final. So whatever potential there was for him to rabbit is gone.

I'm sure the pace will be fast in any event. Problem for El G: it won't be steadily fast throughout, but with numerous surges thrown in. Can El G hang on in such a race?
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby DentyCracker » Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:24 am

This has the makings of a great race. El G, Bekele, Chebii, Kipchoge, Kibowen, Limo, even 18 yo Gebremariam Gebre-egziabher can go under 13 minutes. I think it will be won in 12:50 or so, regardless of the fact that it will be tactical.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:33 am

>This has the makings of a great race. El G,
>Bekele, Chebii, Kipchoge, Kibowen, Limo, even 18
>yo Gebremariam Gebre-egziabher can go under 13
>minutes. I think it will be won in 12:50 or so,
>regardless of the fact that it will be tactical.


I agree. It should be fast but also tactical. Has the makings of a classic. The pace must be fast enough (under 13) to take the last 800 sting out of El G.

I would expect El. G. to try to make a move in the final 500-800 as is his typical 1500 strategy. The question is - will he have enough left to go?

If El G. can pull it off it will definately be one of the best, if not the best, doubles in history. He does have a shot though I wouldn't bet big on him as he is still relatively inexperienced at the distance.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:56 am

>El G needs to go out there and just
>push the pace himself, well i dunno if he could
>do it the same as with a rabbit, but beating the
>other guy is what track is all about, not
>chasing a rabbit in order to beat a time (and in
>the process beating the other guy). Maybe it
>was a mistake for him to rely on this tactic all
>the time, because it sure hurt him in the
>olympics.

El G did not lose Sydney because of tactics. El G lost because of overracing. We all have to remember, Wheaties doesn't do the Golden League circuit! El G learned that the hard way.

Peace.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:59 am

Look for a 3:59 mile in this one. The Kenyans are developing their box-and-one scheme as I write this. I don't think that El G will be dumb enough to let the Kenyans and Ethiopians to dictate the pace. Peace.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:13 am

El G did not lose Sydney
>because of tactics. El G lost because of
>overracing. We all have to remember, Wheaties
>doesn't do the Golden League circuit! El G
>learned that the hard way.



The important thing is that El G.learned from his mistake. You don't see him make the same mistakes over and again. He is very smart and very prepared. He is a true professional - eat, sleeps and breaths the sport.

El G. knows the Kenyans will screw with him and he will prepare himself psychologically to deal with the games. I'm sure Bekele would welcome a fast pace and knows how to run from the front as well as kick off of being forced to set the early tempo. He may try to take control early if the pace lags in the first 1k.

You can be sure that El G has a game plan of his own and has thought about the possible tactics of his competitors. It should be professional running from all parties at its best!

BTW- For the nay sayers that thought EL G. would not attempt the double. He's got more balls than you gave him credit for.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:51 am

Prior to these WC, I would have favored El G in this race: depending on the pace, takes the lead with 800-1200 to go, throws in a 55, breaks the field, and takes it in.

But after the 10k, I don't think that will break Bekele. Given his strength and speed, Bekele could outkick El G over the last 100m as well as hang with anything he can give over the last 800. So if you are El G, what do you do? Possibly, pull a John Ngugi and throw that 55 in much earlier, when others don't think you can possibly hang on.

Interestingly enough, some of the Kenyans may be thinking the same way. I can't imagine they would plan to cooperate, but could it be that the Kenyans and El G might independently decide on a similar strategy and end up working together?

This will be a real classic.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:55 am

It sure seems that the 5000 COULD be the race of the year. El G can't plan to outkick Bekele in the last 600 or last 200 of a slow race. So he needs to keep the pace honest. Bekele, on the other hand, can probably run the whole way at 12:40 pace... This COULD be really fabulous.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:13 am

>el g has a powerful ally?
with times of 12.50
>and 26.38 he may not be el g's ally he may be his
>and everyone else in the 5k's competitor.

without epo those times convert to 13:15 and 27:29. without epo he's human and beatable by americans like salazar.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:14 am

I may be wrong, but I just don't think Alberto's in shape right now....
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:21 am

without epo those times convert to
>13:15 and 27:29. without epo he's human and
>beatable by americans like salazar.

What formula are you using to determine these 'converted' times and how would YOU know what it is?

You're rather a one-trick pony, aren't ya?
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:12 am

A broken-down foaming-at-the-mouth pony with one very tired and predictable trick.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:33 pm

Torres in the finals. What do you think of that.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:46 pm

>Torres in the finals. What do you think of
>that.

Its great. Congrats to Jorge!

However, it must be a strange feeling. Knowing he doesn't have a chance to be in the "race".

It would be interesting if he went a little wild and tried to throw a wrench into the plans of the "A" guys by just ripping it after the first 800. Maybe throw in a 3 flat 12, in essence rabbit the WC into WR territory. It would make the race real interesting and what would he have to lose?

However, he's probably thinking PR which I wouldn't blame him for. He'll likely try to get caught up in the "B" group and run a fast one. But, it would be more fun if he played a part in the big show.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Grazer » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:52 pm

FABULOUS THAT TORRES MADE THE FINAL!

Everyone's writing about El G, but I think Bekele's the story. El G just doesn't have the experience at this kind of distance. If anyone can beat Bekele, it's Chebii. And a 5/10 double these days is just as great an achievement as a 1500/5.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:12 pm

>Everyone's writing about El G, but I
>think Bekele's the story. El G just doesn't have
>the experience at this kind of distance. If
>anyone can beat Bekele, it's Chebii. And a 5/10
>double these days is just as great an achievement
>as a 1500/5.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. The 15/5 is almost unheard of. There is almost never cross-over especially at this level and in the same meet. Most guys are 5/10 specialists as you can see by looking at the rest of the field.

Bekele and Chebii are obvious favorites but you can bet El G. will be a major player. If either Bekele or El G are able to pull it off they should be athlete of the year - without question, but if El G did it it would be a bit more impressive.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:36 pm

I agree with
>everything except the last sentence. The 15/5 is
>almost unheard of. There is almost never
>cross-over especially at this level and in the
>same meet. Most guys are 5/10 specialists as you
>can see by looking at the rest of the field.
>
I see you said "almost unheard of", so there's always an exception, such as Venuste Niyongabo, a definite favourite for a medal in Atlanta in the 1500 after picking one up in 95, but realizing there was no way he was beating Morceli so instead picked up a 5000 gold rather handily.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby dl » Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:14 pm

I heard from a reliable source today that the other Moroccan in the field, Goumri, doesn't get along with Hicham.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:25 pm

Bekele ran 4:04 last mile for his heat in the 5k. I have to believe the last mile in the final,barring bad weather,might go sub 4. If it goes tha fast, there are only 3-4 men entered in the race that can hang with that.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:00 pm

I see you said "almost
>unheard of", so there's always an exception,
>such as Venuste Niyongabo, a definite favourite
>for a medal in Atlanta in the 1500 after picking
>one up in 95, but realizing there was no way he
>was beating Morceli so instead picked up a 5000
>gold rather handily.

Yes, exceptions, and athletes who may have the potential to run both but opt out of one to train for the other, and potential medalists, but to come through with 15/5 gold in the same championships in 2003? Wow!

It would go down as one of the best doubles, probably the best double, in the history of the sport.
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Re: El G has a fellow countryman in the 5k....could he be th

Postby Guest » Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:18 am

It would go down
>as one of the best doubles, probably the best
>double, in the history of the sport.

Yes, I'll agree it would be one of the most impressive doubles, especially with the field assembled for the 5000 final (can't quite say the same for the 1500 final). However, with the field assembled for the 5000 final, I don't think it will be El G with the double win.
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