Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen


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Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:03 am

This whole 100m world record issue is such a joke to me. People are really naive as far as who the best sprinter ever is. 9.79 back in the 80's, no mondo surface, spikes a lot more primitave than those of today, easing up for the last 15m, arm up, looking in Carl Lewis face - Ben Johnson. It wouldn't be stupid to say that almost all (if not all) the sprinters today running under 10.00 are on something, but Ben got caught, and he is slandered for it and isn't given the respect he deserves. THE BEST SPRINTER EVER, hands down.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:04 am

Canadjian eh?
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:58 am

"It wouldn't be stupid to say that almost all (if not all) the sprinters today running under 10.00 are on something"

If you 'know' something Mr. Knowledgable, please produce it. Otherwise, what you say is, of course, worthless garbage.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:09 pm

>but Ben got caught, and he is slandered for it and isn't given the respect he deserves.

Wait a second. He doesn't deserve to be slandered? HE GOT CAUGHT AND ADMITTED DRUG USE, and then, GOT CAUGHT A SECOND TIME DURING HIS BALLYHOOED COMEBACK. He deserves no respect.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:20 pm

yeah whatever. So am I.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:14 pm

Hey idiots, is Ben the only sprinter to get caught? Have you forgotten Dennis Mitchell, Linford Christie, Merlene Ottey, and let's not forget the track icon, Carl Lewis. Many people have been caught for drugs, but haven't taken the heat that Ben has. These people that got caught, are they the only sprinters who have ever used drugs? You guys must be idiots. If it wasn't for some silly messups, they wouldn't have been caught, and many of the sprinters today aren't getting caught. He's the best sprinter ever.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:31 pm

>Hey idiots, is Ben the only sprinter to get
>caught?
Perhaps one of the resident T&FN experts contributing to this board could review how many in that 88 final were subsequently tainted for one reason or another.
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Very good point

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:42 pm

Exactly. Out of that race alone, 4 out of the 8 runners competing later got caught for a banned substance; Ben Johnson, Desai Williams, Linford Christie, Carl Lewis.
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Re: Very good point

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:59 pm

As far as I am concern the times currently being posted are non-drug times. I hope they continue to keep it real. I think Ben is the fastest, drug or no drug. I beleive most sprinters are on drugs.
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Re: Very good point

Postby JRM » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:00 pm

Correction: 5 of the 8. You forgot Dennis Mitchell. That ratio makes it the majority...
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Re: Very good point

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:33 pm

How the heck did I forget Dennis Mitchell?
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Re: Very good point

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:40 pm

By your own admission Ben was on drugs, so therefore shouldn't this topic be correctly entitled "Johnson is the best druggie sprinter ever"? I'll agree to that. But since he was a cheat, he is disqualified from consideration as the best sprinter ever. So unless every other sprinter on the planet is a druggie, he's not the best. I, for one, ran 11.5 in high school, completely clean. So I guess that makes me the 'best sprinter ever.'
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What?

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:24 pm

Look, you last point was stupid, OK. 11.5 sucks, and if you were a woman, you wouldn't be near the best sprinter ever, let's just get that straight. Do you think that sprinters who use drugs just pop a pill and become fast? YOu have no clue. Sprinters still have to do all the training, all the preparations, all the technical work to become great. Ben was an amazing technician, his running form was near perfect, and his start has and will never be duplicated. You say that you don't believe sprinters today use drugs, but you have no solid proof other than your belief.
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Re: What?

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:33 pm

"You say that you don't believe sprinters today use drugs, but you have no solid proof other than your belief."

As opposed to your solid proof that most of them are using drugs?
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Re: Very good point

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:23 pm

Johnson was no dirtier than any other sprinter the last 20 years or so - possibly even much longer ago. Individuals respond differently to drugs, so it's possible he derived more benefit from what he used, and it's also possible his opponents derived the same or even more benefits. He was ahead of his time, no pun intended, and his coach (Francis) had very interesting ideas and training techniques that were ahead of their time. Johnson was better than his contemporaries, including Lewis.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Brutal » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:05 am

Mmmmmmm?

Was he the best 400 man....nope! Was he the best 2000 man...nope! That would ne MJ.

Was he the best 60 man.....nope! That would be Mo.

Big Ben was a great 100 meter man "when" juiced to the gils. What if Lewis or any off the other sub 10.10 guys from the 80's were training with Ben and doing the same crap he was doing would he still be da man... nope!

The greatest 100 man ever was Bullet Bob Hayes who would destroy a straight Ben and if on the same junk as Ben would have ran 9.74 in 88.

Ben got popped he was stooooopid.....period!
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:30 am

In questa lunga, calda, maledetta estate si sentiva l'esigenza di questa affermazione demenziale. Se Ben Johnson è il più grande, mr sapientone farebbe bene a seguire il bigliardo o le bocce, dove il doping non esiste (forse).
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:32 am

In questa lunga, calda, maledetta estate si sentiva l'esigenza di questa affermazione demenziale. Se Ben Johnson è il più grande, mr sapientone farebbe bene a seguire il bigliardo o le bocce, dove il doping non esiste (forse).
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby tafnut » Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:36 am

um . . . OK . . . whatever. YES - Hayes was the best sprinter ever! Ben J. was the fastest drug cheater ever. There - now we're all happy.
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Who the?

Postby Guest » Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:59 pm

Who wrote that last comment about Bob Hayes, his daughter or something? Whatever, if you want to call him the best sprinter ever, you can do that Ms. Hayes, but lets get serious for a second. Maurice does have the 60m world record, but I saw that race with my own eyes, and he caught a flyer, plain and simple. If you average Bens 60m times throughout 86-88, there is no comparison with any other sprinter ever. You have a better argument in trying to say that somebody was better than him in the 100m, let alone the 60m. Ben ran 9.79 with no comp, and 6.41 with no comp. He was WAY ahead of his time, and for whoever said that Carl Lewis would have ran better if he was on drugs, HE WAS ON DRUGS IDIOT! We've already covered that point. If you're going to add to my board, make sure you read messages written before you.
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Re: Who the?

Postby tafnut » Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:24 pm

So now it's your board? Plus it would be very hard to mistake me for Ms. Hayes.
It is just my simple opinion that
a. Hayes was the best sprinter ever
b. Ben was a cheater and should not even be considered an athlete. He well could have been a 10.40 sprinter without drugs, but we'll never know because he got good on drugs. There are, for a fact, clean fast sprinters (like Hayes), and ALL of them deserve to be called better sprinters than Johnson. If you didn't do it without cheating, you never did it. I won't get into who else, and what percentage cheated. If you have facts, like Ben's admission or the EG women's admission, then you strike their accomplishments as legit. You, trying to claim Ben is the best ever, are legitimizing his cheating. We simply cannot buy into that. And . . . before you blast me anew and impugn my character, I will once again state my real name and address . . . and what's yours? If you can't reciprocate, please be quiet.
George Patterson Crandall, 52
English & Journalism teacher
Track & Soccer coach
Episcopal HS
Jacksonville, FL
gpc3@comcast.net
I will post that anytime someone questions my motives. I expect the same from you.
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Re: Who the?

Postby Brutal » Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:51 pm

hey lack of knowledge pay attention......

First off don't confuse steroids with Lewis's situation....big difference!!!!!

Bob Hayes on steroids...WOW!!!! He would destroy Ben,it would be comical.

Let's look at Ben in 84 probably his last drug year.He ran in 7 finals winning but once, his best time a 10.12. He was 23.

Hayes was a WR holder/Oly champ before 22 years of age. Once winning 48 races in a row.If Hayes had ran as long as Ben....well!!!

Take a seat little one andstay out of the way....geesh!
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Re: Who the?

Postby Guest » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:48 pm

The Baltimore Colts were taking steroids in the early '60s; "many" members of the '64 Oly team were, because it was legal. With the football connection, who's to say for sure that ole Bullet Bob didn't have a taste or two of the sauce (all completley legal)?
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Re: Who the?

Postby MJD » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:09 pm

Any of the Bullet's times hand-timed?
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Re: Who the?

Postby Pego » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:20 pm

Realist, are you sure of what you are saying? 1960? As far as I recall, the anabolic steroids did not come into vogue until mid-to-late sixties.
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Re: Who the?

Postby Brutal » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:43 pm

The trip concerning Hayes was his size and power at only 19-21 which were his short sprint career.
He was 5-11 at 195 pounds!!!

He was histories first 5.9/9.1/9.9w guy. He could run the 200 in 20.1. All as a college athlete.

If he'd ran on these tracks today up into his late 20's like the dudes today no telling what he might have ran.

If he'd stayed until 68 he burns Hines in at least a 9.85 with that altitude. He was an amazing sprinter!
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Re: Who the?

Postby tandfman » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:49 pm

>1960? As far as I recall, the anabolic steroids
did not come into vogue until mid-to-late
sixties.<

What does 1960 have to do with it. Hayes won the gold in 1964.
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Re: Who the?

Postby Guest » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:52 pm

Thank you for your reply. It's time someone called a bluff in these threads!
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Re: Who the?

Postby MJD » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:53 pm

>Realist, are you sure of what you are saying?
>1960? As far as I recall, the anabolic steroids
>did not come into vogue until mid-to-late
>sixties.

You gotta love google:

"In the 1956 Olympics, Soviet athletes, especially wrestlers, performed at exceptionally high levels. After learning that those athletes were using testosterone,an American physician (Dr. Zeigler) created a more selective form of what we know as anabolic steroids."


http://www.steroids-info.com/history.htm

You have to hand it to the yanks. Whatever the rest of the world is doing, they can usually do it better. I'd say 1960 looks like a pretty reasonable date.
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Re: Who the?

Postby Pego » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:53 pm

I am not talking about Hayes. You are talking about the Colts and '64 OG team. I am saying that I don't recall steroids hitting the scene for another roughly 4-5 years or more.
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Hey Tafnut

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:03 am

Look here Tafnut, first of all I called it "My" board because of the fact that I came up with the topic, in case you didn't notice genius, My name is right beside the very first comment at the top. Second of all, what the hell is the address for? I really don't care who you are. Anyways, your saying that Ben Johnson is a 10.40 sprinter off of the drugs, so the drugs sliced of 0.6s off of his 100m time? If you knew track at all, you would know at the speed that are going around those times, that is about 8m of distance. Are you an idiot? Steroids will not make such a drastic change, it will take a sprinter who is already capable of running fast (10.1, 10.2), and cause you to be able to train at the level that will allow your body to handle getting under 10s. A 10.4 sprinter? On your little address there, it says that you are a track/ coach. I can tell which one you pay more attention too. Don't ever try to flex muscles on a T&F News message board. You look stupid.
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Hey Tafnut

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:05 am

track/soccer coach. I can tell which one you pay more attention to
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Re: Hey Tafnut

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:13 am

I think all of you are wrong and MJ is the best sprinter ever. No one has ever had the combination of speed and endurance he has had. If he concintrated on the 100, I bet the world record would be under 9.7 right now. Ben Johnson was a great sprinter, but the fact that he had to use steroids to run his fastest times is cheap. You can't give credibility to someone who cheats like that. And by the way, alot of you so called track and field fans don't seem to have any faith in the NATURAL abilities, and NATURAL accomplishments of athletes. It's really sad that when someone runs a phenominal time or has a great career, you credit it with drugs.
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Re: Hey Tafnut

Postby tafnut » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:22 am

Dear Knowledgable (sic),
I really shouldn't respond, but it's post here or do real work, so . . .

a. your name and address are what again? I am so old and feeble, I must have missed it. Anonymity is great for stating unsupportable opinions, but zeroes out credibility. If I say something foolish ( and oh yes, I have) I take responsibility. Taking potshots from behind the rocks is unseemly at best.
b. as to who has made himself look foolish, I beg to differ, but I leave that to others.
c. the name calling is really kind of sad. That shows the mind of someone who feels inferior and needs to put others down to build himself up.

Now, discretion being the better part of valor, I leave you to your withering counter-attack on my character.
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Re: Hey Tafnut

Postby Pego » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:23 am

Hey, Knowledgeable. Having an opinion is great. Defending it mightily is great. This kind of "ad hominem" attacks as you are doing have no place in a civilized debate. You owe tafnut an apology.
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Re: Hey Tafnut

Postby MJD » Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:15 pm

>My name
>is right beside the very first comment at the
>top.

From the "Your account" section of the message boards:

"You will still see your name and email address in the forums even if you choose to hide them -- others will not, however."

Not sure how that works but I have seen it. You might be able to see your name while no one else can.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:01 pm

Other than his 9.83 and 9.79, did Ben Johnson ever run any other fast times? Aside from those two times, the best I can find for him is a 9.90 windy time along with a handful of times between 9.90 and 10.00.
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby JRM » Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:26 pm

"Other than his 9.83 and 9.79, did Ben Johnson ever run any other fast times? Aside from those two times, the best I can find for him is a 9.90 windy time along with a handful of times between 9.90 and 10.00"

Yes, that's about right. However, in this day and age of sub-10 expectations, one must remember that Johnson's times were run when perhaps two other people in the world were running sub-10! Sure, Johnson "only" ran 9.95 in 1986, but that was at sea level when the WR was 9.93A (and Carl Lewis' PB was 9.98).
<p>
Furthermore, Johnson never ran faster than 9.79 because his career was unexpectedly cut short. But everyone knows about that...
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Re: Ben Johnson is the best Sprinter the world has ever seen

Postby Guest » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:57 am

I would love to have seen Tommie Smith run in this day and age...talk about great range. And he had a great coach in Bud Winters ( one of the first american coaches to really understand sprint training and Mechanics)..His career was just begining as most of the sprinters of his era, but no money in the sport stop many runners too early in their careers
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Paradigm shift

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:02 am

>Other than his 9.83 and 9.79, did Ben Johnson
>ever run any other fast times?

Like a previous poster stated, how can you be so quick to dismiss these times? I'm not sure if you were old enough to remember (not an insult, just curious...), but at the time those marks changed the paradigm. Yes, Calvin Smith had run 9.93 at the lofty altitude of Colorado Springs, but Ben's 9.83 and 9.79 at sea level were truly landmark performances.
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