Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR


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Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:23 am

Since de GP final the wr for the 100 m dash belongs to Tim Montgomery, but after that race, where he only broke the wr because of a perfect tail wind he never got under 10.00.
Even worst, he left his couch and let his mouth go faster than his feet.
As a fan I am really sorry that he got the WR, because even whithout being his old self Maurice Greene was really the fastest man on earth, with his 3 world titles outdoor, his 1 world tittle indoor and Olympic tittle. He is a great champion that made our sport great with his personallite and running, not just a guy who got lucky with the wind.And I don't think that Montgomery will win the WC running like he did in the dn galan.
What you people think?
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:24 am

Uhhhhhhhhh...
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:52 am

I think you need more than a few more lessons in the English language!
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:01 pm

Last time I checked these was a internet forum not a english class.
I a believe that i made my point clear besides the mistakes, and yes I need some lessons in english but I know a little, if you are so smart maybe I should write in portuguese and you would get it, right?
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:03 pm

Tim is like Lerroy Burrel who was world record holder but never won any major individual gold medal.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby 197hjsteve » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:04 pm

good answer, BT f, to KF. I bet he knows not one single word of Portugese, any more than all the rest of us.

Let's all be a little better spirited here !
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:15 pm

Thanks 197hjsteve, I believe that all of us are here because we like to talk about our sport and that's what we should do.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:41 pm

Well I have no Portugese (in fact I just hit the back button to see how to spell it), although I take pride in being able to order beer in any language. However, BTF, one does need to leave your couch in order to run at all! (written in jest)
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:39 pm

<even whithout being his old self Maurice Greene was really the fastest man on earth, with his 3 world titles outdoor, his 1 world tittle indoor and Olympic tittle>

that is what mo has been saying about tim, that he has never won a world or olympic title. unless he does that he cant call himself the fastest or the best ever. truth is that tim clocked 9.84 and 9.85 in 2001 and could have won in that year had it not been for maurice's amazing first 60 (in edmonton). both have performed well off their high standards this year, but mo has stayed with the same coach and has won the worlds three times before so you can't write him off. it is possible that mo has not run a race seriously this year (save the race in la he went under 10) and could serious in the next 3 weeks. on the other hand monty has been basking in the glow of his world record way too much and every race he enters he claims he will break the meet record and run sub 10. his best race was in osaka in may and has not come close since then. he has changed coaches three times since last year and i doubt he has had a good month of consistent training. i am sure the birth of his son is a distraction, but he had a daughter (with another woman by the way) in 2001 and that did not impact him that much. i doubt that he runs any more races in europe and does not get to paris until the 20th. there is a good chance he does not show up to paris at all claiming he is injured and rehabing so he could be ready for next year. if that is the case this will be the biggest humiliation for a world record holder in recent memory.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:56 am

I agree with you, Thanos.
He is not ready to run in the WC, and I think that he will not be in the finals.
Without his perfect tail wind he would not be the wr holder, and now even with his perfect tail wind he is not going to win the WC.
After what he said before the DN Galan, that he would run 9.87 we see how far from reality he is.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:38 am

The way I look at it, Montgomery ran with a legal tail-wind behind him, he didn't test positive for any banned substances and his time was faster than the existing world-record.
Flash-back to 68' Charles Green won the AAU title,the Olympic Trials title but lost to Jim Ray Hines who happened to run a 9.95 world-recrd in the altitude. Should he have been villifed for that accomplishment? (I think not).
Peace JP
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Alan » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:07 am

Indeed, when you adjust for wind and altitude, Montgomery's WR ranks only 14th all-time. Go to:

http://desert.jsd.claremont.edu/~newt/t ... index.html

When the page comes up, leave all the settings alone (including the blank line) and just click at the bottom on "View Rankings." You're also free to opt for different settings, in addition, such as the all-time adjusted 200 rankings.

I would accept Montgomery's WR in a formal sense (he has the fastest time within our existing framework), but in no way (at this point in history) would I consider Montgomery the greatest sprinter of all time.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby tafnut » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:18 am

Thanks for the link - but here's question. The third adjusted time is a 9.83 for a 9.82 run into a 0.2 HEADWIND. Why is the adjusted time slower?
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby bubba » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:21 am

altitude. 680m worth of it.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby tafnut » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:07 am

oops - should have looked further - thanks
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:25 am

If that were the criteria then why even recognize a world record as such. Montgomery ran a legal 9.78 and that in my book is the world record. He may run a 9.90 into a 20 mph headwind next, week and guess what, it would be a great race, but he would not have broken the world record. WHy not just move all race indoors from now on so their would be no question?
Peace JP
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby rmayes » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:36 pm

You better pressurize those indoor venues too so they’re all the same air pressure.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Orange » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:43 pm

According to the rules now in effect, Tim Montgomery holds the world record in the 100 meter dash at 9.78. To be sure, alot of things went right that night such as an almost perfect reaction time (.104) & the maximum trailing wind
(2.0 M/S). You cannot disrespect this performance for circumstances outside of the athlete's control. In my opinion, only the fans are interested in wind/altitude conversion factors.
Maurice Greene watched from the stands as his world record fell by only .01 seconds under the most favorable of circumstances, and I'm sure he wasn't happy about it. At this point in time most people would naturally agree that Maurice Greene is the better lifetime sprinter to date. Unfortunately his best races were run with nil or even small headwinds. If he hadn't cramped up in the latter stages of the 01 WC at Edmonton, the world record would still be his.
Like it or not, Montgomery has run the fastest legal time. We track fans should not view his record with contempt. Tim Montgomery may not be the world's best sprinter of his generation, but he does have the fastest performance. There is a difference between being an Olympic Gold medalist/World Champion & a world record holder.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:49 am

Orange, I agree with you, a lot of things were perfect that day for Tim, tail wind, reaction, but I believe that one WR holder that needs all that to perform is not so good for our sport.
Everybody knows that publicity is everything to make it more popular and having Tim as the fastest man in the world is not good publicity.
Last I heard he said he would go under 9.87... and we see what happened in the DN galan...we need someone who wins tittles and brake records to bring attention to track.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby tafnut » Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:00 am

I'm with Orange 100%. Given all the requirements for a WR, Tim broke it. No one else ever, under any legal conditions, has run faster. Any athlete will tell you that the stars must be aligned correctly (plus luck) to break a WR. Even the name of this thread is ludicrous. Of course he SHOULD have broken 'de' WR, he ran it faster than Mo, Leroy, Carl et al ever ran it. It was a magnificent achievement and should be highly esteemed. Period. Whether or not he wins the OG or WC is irrelevant. If he loses, then the winner had to beat the WR-holder - good for him.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:59 pm

Look, tafnut...about the tittle... I am brazilian and I am not used to write in english and after I posted the message I saw the mistake "de" instead of "The". But as I said before I made my point clear.
About Tim, I really agree with you, he got the wr fair and square. But really think that is not good for the sport to have a wr holder that only perform with a tail wind, and he said that before de DN Galan. I never saw Greene, Bailey or Carl Lewis saing something like that and because of things like that I believe that the WR was in better hands when Maurice was its owner.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby tafnut » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:15 pm

EVERY - I mean EVERY male sprint WR-holder, by genetic design, in the last 40 years, has been BIG TALK. The sprinters are famous for their excess testosteronisms. Monty talking smack is part of the game. It's how they talk themselves into it. Fans eat it up (while simultaneously criticizing it). I do think Monty may be done for the year, but he and Mo will be talking big again next year.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:39 pm

guys the brazilian guy is right and his point is that monty might have the title of the 100 meter world record holder, but he is not the best 100 meter runner. with the adjusted time list as the lone factor maurice greene is the best with the most time in the list including the top 3. with championships being another factor maurice is best again with 3 world championships, 1 olympic gold, five usatf titles and even one world indoor title. tim has only won the grand prix final ! enough said, but paris is another story...
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Brazilian Track fan » Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:51 am

Finally someone who understand what I meant.
Thanks Thanos.
Ok, Tim is the WR holder, nobody can take that from him but he is far from being the best sprinter.
He did not go under 10.00 after that.
About the trash talking, well most of them does that... but there are a few that does not, like Frankie Fredericks. And it is not because they do that we should accept it... and Tim now a days only do the trash talk and is forgetting to run...
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:57 am

"Finally someone who understand what I meant.
Thanks Thanos.
Ok, Tim is the WR holder, nobody can take that from him but he is far from being the best sprinter.
He did not go under 10.00 after that.
About the trash talking, well most of them does that... but there are a few that does not, like Frankie Fredericks. And it is not because they do that we should accept it... and Tim now a days only do the trash talk and is forgetting to run..."

Yes; Tim Montgomery ran a brilliant 10.39 in Sweden a few days ago. I think he's got some work to do.
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Re: Tim Montgomery should not have broken de WR

Postby Guest » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:19 am

>"Yes; Tim Montgomery ran a brilliant 10.39 in Sweden a few days ago. I think he's got some work to do.<

Yes, indeed. He's got some more diapers to change.
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