I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...


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I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:46 am

...something about the new mile WJR besides a tiny paragraph at the end of the magazine. An African kid won't appeal to the general public, but track fans will be interested to read about him. Anyway it's just not fair how everyone goes nucking futs over Alan Webb's 3:53 and then completely ignores a 3:50 by an African kid.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:51 am

Good Call Man.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:51 am

Maybe 'cuz we know Webb was 18 and the African "kid" may be 28
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:52 am

The African kid starts collecting social security next year.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby blacklily » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:12 pm

>Maybe 'cuz we know Webb was 18 and the African
>"kid" may be 28

Probably not. Likelier scenario: if someone's not American, T&FN is much likelier to give it short shrift.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:57 pm

That almost sounded like a criticism. T&FN is an American magazine most assuredly for an American audience. There are plenty of other track periodicals in the world. I bet T&FN isn't even the largest circulation. I read it for Americans first and then . . . world stars.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby gh » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:58 pm

Last time I looked (many years ago now), T&FN had about the same circulation as Athletics Weekly (Britain) and Leichtathletik (Germany). We're down, but suspect they are too. But bottom line is, we don't care about being the biggest, so long as we're the best! :-)

As to content, with a readership that's 85-90% U.S., and has for years overwhelmingly said in surveys that domestic track is what they want (and consider HS track a high priority), don't expect any change in our mix. We'll continue to do what we think the bulk of the readers want, and there's not the remotest shread of doubt in our minds that they'd rather read about Alan Webb (or Gabe Jennings, for that matter), than James Kwalia. For us to assume otherwise would be fiscally suicidal.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:36 pm

What is your circ? I have a bet with one of our circulation managers.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:35 pm

>...something about the new mile WJR besides a
>tiny paragraph at the end of the magazine. An
>African kid won't appeal to the general public,
>but track fans will be interested to read about
>him. Anyway it's just not fair how everyone goes
>nucking futs over Alan Webb's 3:53 and then
>completely ignores a 3:50 by an African kid.

The reason everyone went "futs" over Webb was that it was an American record that had stood for so long. If another U.S. h.s. kid runs 3:52 in the next couple of years he will most certainly be a celebrity in the T&F world but he won't get the widespread attention Webb did. Webb smashed though a barrier that had stood for almost three decades and brought a lot of attention to the sport in the US.

Every year another incredible young African emerges. They are awesome, we know that, we are used to that. We are looking for more young Americans to step up to the new challenge set by Mr. Webb.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby hammer forever » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:02 pm

Re: circulation, I always read the October issue for the "statement of ownership" to see how many copies are spoiled, given away, etc.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:19 pm

Just off the top of my head, I believe that the last numbers (Dec 02) were 19,363 paid or requested issues or month average.

1979's number was 32,572.

C'mon gang - start helping out here.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby rmayes » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:34 pm

Any idea why circulation numbers have dropped so much? Is there really that much less interest in track and field in the US since 1979 or is it because of other avenues such as the internet and television (not that there's that many track meets on TV in the US). With so many universities dropping the sport over the last few years I think many of us fans are concerned about the outlook of track and field in the US. Seeing almost a 50% decline in circulation of the "bible" of the sport in this country over the last 25 years was somewhat alarming. Any insight into this? Was there that many baby boomer track fans back then?
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:02 pm

After subscribing to TFN for 16 years (1980-1996), TFN got too danged expensive as I saw it go from $13.50/year to over $40/year. Sorry, with the advent of the internet and the already many hundreds of meets I've been to in my lifetime, I really don't need most of the fluff that TFN adds in the way of words to a story. I can already read most of the story on the 'net anyway.

I'd consider re-subscribing if TFN dropped back down to the $25/year range. But at today's price, FORGET IT!

Suggestion for the TFN crew...MOVE OUT OF THAT DAMNED OVER-TAXED SOCIALIST UTOPIA OF KALIFORNIA. Maybe then your production costs will lower considerably and you'll be able to re-gain some lost subscribers like me.

Kurt
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:18 pm

<<I'd consider re-subscribing if TFN dropped back down to the $25/year range. But at today's price, FORGET IT! >>

Last of the bigtime spenders aren't we. Listen, a lot of of my friends play golf, an average greens fee is more than $40 and you think that's too much for a year's subscription to T&FN? Oh, and all the "free" stuff you get off the internet has to get paid eventually by someone. If everyone were a cheapskate, one of these days no more T&fN, no more message board, no more "free" stuff.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby bhall » Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:15 am

I'll hype it again... if you haven't tried eTN you're missing a big part of your T&FN subscription. eTN is a weekly (during the peak season) results newsletter that is emailed on the Wednesday (sometimes sooner) after a weekend's results. You get tons of results no else has, consistent structure, and add-ons (like NCAA nationals qualifiers highlighted specially in the regional issue and Worlds qualifiers highlighted in the USATF issue). It is a huge addition to your T&FN subscription and it is FREEEEEEEEEE for subscribers.

You're not just getting 12 issues of the magazine anymore, you're also getting 42+ issues of eTN. Which brings me to my next point...

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!

We'll be sending a daily eTN from Paris for the World Championships!
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby bhall » Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:32 am

This would help- http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/eT ... ration.jsp

If you're a subscriber give it a shot. You can always opt out of eTN if you don't like it or you're getting too much T&F :-)
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:18 am

I would ahve liked to see more than two pages on regionals. T&FN campaigned for years to get the meets put into place and then virtually ignored them.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:51 am

Dear Mr. Francis,

$40 is too much? Who do you think pays for this web site that you frequent? Who pays the salary of the B. Halls who keep it up and running? Instead of telling the T&F owners to move out of California, why don't you get off you ass and pony up like the rest of us do. $40 a year ain't cheap, but T&F News provides the "glue" which allows fans to stay connected with the sport (and through the internet with each other). If T&F News folded up shop you would likely be one of the first to complain about lack of coverage.

I pay a lot more than $40 a year on crap I can't even recall. $40 a year for insightful reporting (and to support the magazine) is money well spent. Where I come from you pay for what you want - you don't mooch of others (i.e. subscribers) because your cheap. That's not to say everyone who visits the T&F web site has to be a subscriber - I just take offense when someone (a non-subscriber) bitches about the cost (which they are not paying) while enjoying the benefits.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:00 am

We are so used to African domination in distance events that a young star from that region of the world is not really news.

What is interesting however is that these young African stars don't fall from grace like Webb and Hall. They just continue to get better.

Lets be honest Steve Holman was the last competitive US 1500/mile runner. Jason Pyrah also showed he could compete by making the finals in the last Olympics.

With the exception of Krummenacker there is nothing really happening among US 1500 meters runners.
Maybe Lunn can change things today.

I miss the "good old days" of US miling when we had competitive runners like Steve Scott, Jim Spivey, Tim Hacker, Sidney Maree, Chuck Argon(?), and Jeff Atkinson. They were followed by two more fast milers Joe Falcon and Steve Holman.
All these guys had one thing in common in that they could run times ranging from 3:47 to 3:52. That speed range would still put them in direct contact with the best African runners today.

After mentioning these names lets put the rest the idea that there is any kind of mile renaissance going on in the US. Webb runs a fast High School school mile and the gullible press is talking about a distance renaissance in the States.

Fast Fact:

Did you know Joe Falcon was the last American to break 3:50 for the mile. It happened at the Dream Mile in 1991 where he beat Peter Elliot of Great Britain. This race I believe was the last time either an American or Englishman broke 3:50 for a mile. Wow, it has been 12 years!! Webb was only 8 when this race took place.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby tafnut » Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:51 am

African stars just get better? Then why do we have to learn a whole new set of names every two years? The kips, koechs, ronos, gats, etc. confuse me mightily. They have a seemingly inexhaustable supply of talent, but it is most certainly NOT the same every year. Their monstrous mileages do take their toll and people disappear very often. Even the mighty Geb is human and has problems. What does that tell you? Everybody has ups and downs. AW had up, then a down, I see an up in his future.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby gh » Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:33 am

>Any idea why circulation numbers have dropped so
>much? >>

1. The biggest reason is that the 1979 number didn't reflect reality. That was about the peak of the running boom, when Runner's World was really taking off, and a lot of "everyday runners" were exploring (and buying) everything in the running world. But as track-meet promoters quickly learned, the great masses of runners have virtually zero interest in track meets. Same for paying for a track (& FIELD) magazine. So that number was unrealistic.

2. The Baby Boom had a greater chunk of people to whom we could sell.

3. 1980 and 1984 Olympics were boycotted, souring a lot of people on the sport. We used to see a marked circulation rise in every Olympic year. Now we don't. The bloom is off that rose.

4. Internet competition. It's not easy to come up with a product that people will pay for if they can get complete satisfaction for free.

But we continue to fight.

gh

(E. Garry Hill/editor, T&FN)
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby The Flash » Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:55 am

$40-fair-weather-track-fan...If you really want to subscribe again to T&FN, try putting $4.00 into a piggy bank on the first day of the month. After one year, you can start getting T&FN just in time for Athens! Keep saving your pennies, keep reading the "best" T&F magazine around. It's not that much.

Or...you could ask Santa Claus for a subscription.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:10 am

>African stars just get better? Then why do we
>have to learn a whole new set of names every two
>years? The kips, koechs, ronos, gats, etc.
>confuse me mightily. They have a seemingly
>inexhaustable supply of talent, but it is most
>certainly NOT the same every year. Their
>monstrous mileages do take their toll and people
>disappear very often. Even the mighty Geb is
>human and has problems. What does that tell you?
>Everybody has ups and downs. AW had up, then a
>down, I see an up in his future.

T&F Nut-

The is off the topic thread but you make a great point. Many say the Kenyan training programs are so remarkable - that's not as much the case as 1.) so many are built to run 2.) so many are running. They are all like shooting stars - a few seasons and done replaced by another with fresh legs who will be good for another couple seasons. Its all about numbers. They have thousands with potential all trying to make it to the top.

We don't have as many "naturals" here in the states (small light frame built to run), and we don't have as many trying to run (many other sports to compete with). When we do get talent we should nurture the talent rather than trying to be like the Kenyan's and exploit the talent until the next one comes along (we don't always have a "next one".
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:24 pm

El Supremo & Flash:

Let's see guys....yes, I did "bitch" (as you put it) about the increased price in TFN over the years; however, AT LEAST I HAD THE BALLS TO ATTACH MY NAME TO MY COMPLAINT!!! NOT LIKE YOU SPINELESS WIENIES!

As far as my so-called "cheapness", I DIDN'T ask for this forum to be put up for my use! If it weren't here, I wouldn't miss it at ALL! And I sure as hell wouldn't be taking your CRAP abuse about something I DIDN'T ask you input for ANYWAY!

So, fellas..... PISS OFF!

Kurt Francis
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:47 pm

Lighten up, Francis.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby blacklily » Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:09 pm

>After subscribing to TFN for 16 years
>(1980-1996), TFN got too danged expensive as I
>saw it go from $13.50/year to over $40/year.
>Sorry, with the advent of the internet and the
>already many hundreds of meets I've been to in
>my lifetime, I really don't need most of the
>fluff that TFN adds in the way of words to a
>story. I can already read most of the story on
>the 'net anyway.

I'd consider re-subscribing
>if TFN dropped back down to the $25/year range.
>But at today's price, FORGET IT!

Suggestion
>n for the TFN crew...MOVE OUT OF THAT DAMNED
>OVER-TAXED SOCIALIST UTOPIA OF KALIFORNIA. Maybe
>then your production costs will lower
>considerably and you'll be able to re-gain some
>lost subscribers like me.

Kurt

I agree with Kurt, & I'm a T&FN subscriber. Compared to most magazines, even trade ones, T&FN's subscription price IS too high. Especially with the advent of quick meet results & the Internet, you don't really get enough bang for one's $40 bucks. Most of the news stories are old news by the time we receive the issue, & there could be more investigative pieces if you ask me.

Along with USA's declining interest in track, I'm sure price has played a role in why subscription has been halved over the years. I know that part of it is due to so few advertisers (although I think there are some potential advertisers, such as organic producers, that T&FN may wish to explore if it hasn't already done so). However, the price must come down to bring subscribership back to its old level. The only reason why I currently subscribe is to help out the track & field community. However, I might reconsider once my subscription runs out, & find other ways of support.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:24 pm

'balls'
'wienies'
'crap'
'piss off'

Kurt, you really like to flaunt your big vocabulary, don't you?

Signed,
anonymous (wow, I bet that makes you even madder!)
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby 197hjsteve » Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:33 pm

yes kurt, it sounds like you have "issues." I would suggest professional help from a qualified therapist in dealing with your anger control problem.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:10 pm

>After subscribing to TFN for 16 years
>(1980-1996), TFN got too danged expensive as I
>saw it go from $13.50/year to over $40/year.
>Sorry, with the advent of the internet and the
>already many hundreds of meets I've been to in
>my lifetime, I really don't need most of the
>fluff that TFN adds in the way of words to a
>story. I can already read most of the story on
>the 'net anyway.

I'd consider re-subscribing
>if TFN dropped back down to the $25/year range.
>But at today's price, FORGET IT!>>

Mr. Francis,
Actually, if you quit subscribing in 1996 you never paid more than $34.95 (being a huge MJ fan, I just happen to have his mug from the December 1996 edition on my desk), but I don't mean to pick nits. The point is that TFN has nearly ALWAYS been expensive. (I started in the early 1970's.)

But think about the progress the magazine has made. When you started in 1980 I don't think there was any color except for the front page. When you stopped in 1996 most of the photography, based on the issue I'm holding, was still black and white. Now the whole thing is all-color. In my life as a salesman I've had the occasion to get flyers printed, in both color and b&w; the difference in cost is mind-boggling. I have to guess that the current price of 40-whatever has slashed the magazine's profit margin notably over what it was at $34.95.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby tafnut » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:15 pm

Not to pry, but I have often wondered whether the magazine really makes any money at all. You go to meets all over the world (not ALL the time, but often enough), you have to pay high rent in the Peninsula, you have to pay (slave) wages, you have big production costs, etc. I suspect you do it just for the press credentials at the big meets.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby gh » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:58 pm

I was a guest lecturer at a class at Stanford a month or two back. It was a sociology class relating to the place of Olympic sports like track in a modern pro-ball-dominated society. Several members of the Stanford track team were in the class (Lauren Fleshman--yikes! Scarily brilliant) and we got into the matter of content, both of newspapers (there were other ink-stained wretches on the panel) in general and of T&FN in particular.

I had two things to tell them which I would like to think are relevant to this thread.

Point one is boring technical stuff, but note: magazines aren't like paperback books, where you can just slip in another piece of paper. The way presses work, you generally have to add pages a minimum of 8 at a time. So to make the average magazine any bigger instantly costs at least 12.5% more. You've got to have very good justification for doing that.

Point two is that recognizing the finite nature of availabe space, as dictated by point one, every time you add something, something else has to be taken away. So if we had indeed put a poster in the July issue, two pages of other material would have to go. No matter what you pick to go, my analysis is that there would be more people who wanted it to stay. They'd all have things you love that they'd rather swap out. Same with the Regionals, same with the foreign news.

We have no delusions that each (hell, ANY) issue of T&FN has perfect content. There's too much subjectivity involved. When we break down each issue after the fact, every member of the editorial board will be sure to have at least one comment about moreofthislessofthat that nobody else in the room agrees with.

The best we can hope for is a product that satisfies most of the people most of the time. And for 50-plus years, we like to think we've done a pretty good job of that.

We continue to probe and inquire, and tweak. Have we been slow to react to the threat of the Internet? Absolutely. Are we now creating a product that can exist side-by-side with the e-world? We're trying.

Those who have bought into the eTN (electronic results) concept I think will tell you that T&FN has never given you more bang for your buck. The big question is, are there enough people left willing to pay (at just about any price, no matter how small) for track stuff when they can indeed get so much of it free?
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q for blacklily

Postby bubba » Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:04 pm

My question for blacklily- have you tried Ben's suggestion and signed up for eTN?

If not, why?

If not, you're missing out! I love it. I print it out and read it while I ride my stationary bike and see all the stats I missed browsing the net over the last week.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby tafnut » Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:05 pm

which is where your 'live' commentary comes in. We can get the results (not that I want you to stop putting out TN, I've got them all back to 1970), but it's T&FN's expert commentary that we want. What really happened in the event? That and the splits (e.g. the unusual Rome 5K splits) are what we are interested in (now that I'm speaking for EVERYbody).
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:06 am

As a follow-up...

I was a bit crude in my rebuttal to others concerning their un-solicited comments on my supposed "cheapness". To this end, I apologize.

However, regarding my supposed cheapness, I merely meant to convey that I no longer find TFN necessary in my life at it's current subscriber price. I am an engineer by trade and can well afford far more expensive trade publications than TFN; however, I can't justify the added expense even with all the do-dads and color photos and what not. I'm SOOOOOOOO SORRRRRRYYYYY if some of you "people" out there have some reason for decrying my supposed "cheapness", "lack of support for TFN", or whatever psychological reasons you "people" may be devising for my behavior. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE :)

I do not have to respond to all the "comments" here; however, for those ACTUALLY concerned about my "crudity", I offer my apologies. Actually, given the level (or lack thereof) of comments I've already read on the boards here, I actually thought my rebuttal was short and to-the-point and appropriate.

So, for now, I say adieu to all of you "fans".

Kurt
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:31 am

>As a follow-up...

I was a bit crude in my
>rebuttal to others concerning their un-solicited
>comments on my supposed "cheapness". To this
>end, I apologize.

However, regarding my
>supposed cheapness, I merely meant to convey that
>I no longer find TFN necessary in my life at it's
>current subscriber price. I am an engineer by
>trade and can well afford far more expensive
>trade publications than TFN; however, I can't
>justify the added expense even with all the
>do-dads and color photos and what not. I'm
>SOOOOOOOO SORRRRRRYYYYY if some of you "people"
>out there have some reason for decrying my
>supposed "cheapness", "lack of support for
>TFN", or whatever psychological reasons you
>"people" may be devising for my behavior.
>THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE :)

I do not
>have to respond to all the "comments" here;
>however, for those ACTUALLY concerned about my
>"crudity", I offer my apologies. Actually,
>given the level (or lack thereof) of comments
>I've already read on the boards here, I actually
>thought my rebuttal was short and to-the-point
>and appropriate.

So, for now, I say adieu to
>all of you "fans".

Kurt

You're entitled to your opinions. People shouldn't get so upset. If they don't like what you write, let them fire back. Inhibiting ideas, or promoting censorship to avoid hurting feelings - or anything else - is silly.
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:40 am

>>African stars just get better? Then why do
>we
>have to learn a whole new set of names every
>two
>years? The kips, koechs, ronos, gats,
>etc.
>confuse me mightily. They have a
>seemingly
>inexhaustable supply of talent, but
>it is most
>certainly NOT the same every year.
>Their
>monstrous mileages do take their toll and
>people
>disappear very often. Even the mighty
>Geb is
>human and has problems. What does that
>tell you?
>Everybody has ups and downs. AW had
>up, then a
>down, I see an up in his
>future.

T&F Nut-

The is off the topic
>thread but you make a great point. Many say the
>Kenyan training programs are so remarkable -
>that's not as much the case as 1.) so many are
>built to run 2.) so many are running. They are
>all like shooting stars - a few seasons and done
>replaced by another with fresh legs who will be
>good for another couple seasons. Its all about
>numbers. They have thousands with potential all
>trying to make it to the top.

We don't have
>as many "naturals" here in the states (small
>light frame built to run), and we don't have as
>many trying to run (many other sports to compete
>with). When we do get talent we should nurture
>the talent rather than trying to be like the
>Kenyan's and exploit the talent until the next
>one comes along (we don't always have a "next
>one".

The Kenyans (and many of the Ethiopians) are also older than they admit. They have hit their peak, and slow down due to age. Even Geb is supposedly a few years older than admitted.

That said, the E. Africans do have a larger number of individuals with the "make-up" to be distance stars. Couple that with small participation in distance running in the US and Europe, and you have domination. The North Africans do well, but maybe the US and many European countries would do as well (think of the Brits in the late 70's/early 80's) if the interest were there. But it isn't. Too many sports/activities competing for attention. And running is tough, especially from the 800 on up. Of course, things are cyclical, and things will probably turn again. It's very possible that India and China have scores of guys with the ability, but there's little interest, and other sports are in the forefront for the men in those hugely populated countries.

What would I like to see in T&FN? That is the topic of this thread ... Maybe more opinion pieces, or in depth articles on "hot" stories to get the juices flowing. No, this doesn't mean derogatory, but it can mean getting into controversial areas that the mag typically ignores. Who knows, it could have a ripple effect and help straighten many things out, maybe?
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby 197hjsteve » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:18 am

oh, Kurt, you're not such a bad guy after all.

There is a very human tendency for ALL of us to get into Rants with flying fingers on E Mail keyboards. I do it in my business E mails sometime, where I would have been much more diplomatic in a traditional letter or in a telephone call. So don't go away mad. After all, we are all just good 'ole track fans, aren't we ?!
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:44 pm

>Those who have bought
>into the eTN (electronic results) concept I think
>will tell you that T&FN has never given you more
>bang for your buck. The big question is, are
>there enough people left willing to pay (at just
>about any price, no matter how small) for track
>stuff when they can indeed get so much of it
>free?

Here are a few questions that I truly do not know the answers to, although I'm sure others here do.

1) Do other niche sports magazines go into as much detail about past results as T&FN does? Broad-interest sports magazines (like SI, ESPN, and The Sporting News) simply do not. In other words, is it the norm do devote so much space to things your readers already know fairly well (and to hype things that have already happened as "coming in our next issue")?

2) I sense that while T&FN actually publishes the magazine, the readership expresses a great deal of "ownership" -- that is, we think it's just as much "our" magazine as "yours". Does the staff see themselves as providing a public service as advocates of the sport, or capitalists trying to keep a business afloat, or both?
Guest
 

Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:04 pm

Well this conversation has certainly evolved considerably
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Re: I would haved liked to see (in T&FN)...

Postby polevaultpower » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:04 pm

1) Do other niche sports
>magazines go into as much detail about past
>results as T&FN does? Broad-interest sports
>magazines (like SI, ESPN, and The Sporting News)
>simply do not. In other words, is it the norm do
>devote so much space to things your readers
>already know fairly well (and to hype things that
>have already happened as "coming in our next
>issue")?

I have subscribed to International Gymnast for the past several years. They seem to spend about the same amount of time focusing on the past as T&F News, and they have the same problem of hyping meets that have already happened. I don't see the first part of that as a problem, and there is not much you can do about the latter (except get eT&FN or whatever it is called).
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